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Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

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Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#91

Post by zozbot234 »

qalmakka wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to run AI models at scale and with reasonably quick response, there's not many alternatives to datacenter hardware. Consumer hardware is great for repurposing existing "free" compute (including gaming PCs, pro workstations etc. at the higher end) and for basic insurance against rug pulls from the big AI vendors, but increased scale will probably still bring very real benefits.

Currently, yes. But I don't find it hard to imagine that in a while we could get reasonably light open models with a level of reasoning similar to current opus, for instance. In such a scenario how many people would opt to pay for a way more expensive cloud subscription? Especially since lots of people are already not that interested in paying for frontier models nowadays where it makes sense. Unless keep on getting…

I think average users are already okay with the reasoning level they'd get with current open models. But the big AI firms have pivoted their frontier models towards the enterprise: coding and research, as opposed to general chat. And scale is quite important for these uses, ordinary pro hardware is not enough.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#92

Post by WarmWash »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #79
WarmWash wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese state wants the world using their models. People think that Chinese AI labs are just super cool bros that love sharing for free. The don't understand it's just a state sponsored venture meant to further entrench China in global supply and logistics. China's VCs are Chinese banks and a sprinkle of "private" money. Private in quotes because technically it still belongs to the state anyway. China doesn't hav…

Like with nuclear technology, it's not healthy for only one country to dominate AI. The cat is already out of the bag and many countries now have the ability to train and run models. Silicon Valley has bootstrapped this space. But it should be noted that they are using AI talent from all over the world and it was sort of inevitable that this technology would get around. Lots of Chinese, Indian, Russian, and Europeans…

>As for state sponsorship, a lot of things are state sponsored.

You can make any comparison you want if you use adjectives rather than values. I can say that cars use a massive amount of water (all those radiators!) to try and downplay agricultural water usage. But its blatantly disingenuous.

SV is overwhelmingly private (actual constitutional private) money. To the point that you should disregard people saying otherwise, just like you would the people saying cars use massive amounts of water.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#93

Post by elAhmo »

Someone1234 wrote: post #4
jjice wrote: post #2

With them comparing to Opus 4.5, I find it hard to take some of these in good faith. Opus 4.7 is new, so I don't expect that, but Opus 4.6 has been out for quite some time.

If money is no object, then nothing else is worth considering if it isn't Codex 5.4/Opus 4.7/SOTA. But for many to most people, value Vs. relative quality are huge levers. Even many people on a Claude subscription aren't choosing or able to choose Opus 4.7 because of those cost/usage pressures. Often using Sonnet or an older opus, because of the value Vs. quality curve.

Codex 5.4 is not out?

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#94

Post by spwa4 »

grttsww wrote: post #67
WarmWash wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese state wants the world using their models. People think that Chinese AI labs are just super cool bros that love sharing for free. The don't understand it's just a state sponsored venture meant to further entrench China in global supply and logistics. China's VCs are Chinese banks and a sprinkle of "private" money. Private in quotes because technically it still belongs to the state anyway. China doesn't hav…

So what? I still prefer that over US total dominance. Let them fight it out.

I'd get a bit informed about what exactly Chinese dominance entails. Ask a few Uyghurs, Cantonese Hong Kongers, or even Tibetans.

Then decide ...

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#95

Post by pduggishetti »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #58
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #29

The way to develop in this space seems to be to give away free stuff, get your name out there, then make everything proprietary. I hope they still continue releasing open weights. The day no one releases open weights is a sad day for humanity. Normal people won’t own their own compute if that ever happens.

I'm a little more optimistic than that. I suspect that the open-weight models we already have are going to be enough to support incremental development of new ones, using reasonably-accessible levels of compute. The idea that every new foundation model needs to be pretrained from scratch, using warehouses of GPUs to crunch the same 50 terabytes of data from the same original dumps of Common Crawl and various Russian…

I do not think it's common crawl anymore, its common crawl++ using paid human experts to generate and verify new content, weather its code or research.

I believe US is building this off the cost difference from other countries using companies like scale, outlier etc, while china has the internal population to do this

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#97

Post by cute_boi »

jjice wrote: post #2

With them comparing to Opus 4.5, I find it hard to take some of these in good faith. Opus 4.7 is new, so I don't expect that, but Opus 4.6 has been out for quite some time.

Comparing it with Opus 4.6 is difficult, since Anthropic may ban accounts and accuse users of state-sponsored hacking.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#98

Post by twoodfin »

qalmakka wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to run AI models at scale and with reasonably quick response, there's not many alternatives to datacenter hardware. Consumer hardware is great for repurposing existing "free" compute (including gaming PCs, pro workstations etc. at the higher end) and for basic insurance against rug pulls from the big AI vendors, but increased scale will probably still bring very real benefits.

Currently, yes. But I don't find it hard to imagine that in a while we could get reasonably light open models with a level of reasoning similar to current opus, for instance. In such a scenario how many people would opt to pay for a way more expensive cloud subscription? Especially since lots of people are already not that interested in paying for frontier models nowadays where it makes sense. Unless keep on getting…

This is really just a question of product design meeting the technology.

Today, lots of integer compute happens on local devices for some purposes, and in the cloud for others.

Same is already true for matmul, lots of FLOPS being spent locally on photo and video processing, speech to text, …

No obvious reason you wouldn’t want to specialize LLM tasks similarly, especially as long-running agents increasingly take over from chatbots as the dominant interaction architecture.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#99

Post by culi »

ninjahawk1 wrote: post #29

The way to develop in this space seems to be to give away free stuff, get your name out there, then make everything proprietary. I hope they still continue releasing open weights. The day no one releases open weights is a sad day for humanity. Normal people won’t own their own compute if that ever happens.

I think that's an overgeneralization. We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start. Meanwhile the non-American (especially the Chinese ones) have been open since the start. In fact they often go the opposite direction. Many Chinese models started off proprietary and then were later opened up (like many of the larger Qwen models)

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#100

Post by embedding-shape »

culi wrote: post #99
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #29

The way to develop in this space seems to be to give away free stuff, get your name out there, then make everything proprietary. I hope they still continue releasing open weights. The day no one releases open weights is a sad day for humanity. Normal people won’t own their own compute if that ever happens.

I think that's an overgeneralization. We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start. Meanwhile the non-American (especially the Chinese ones) have been open since the start. In fact they often go the opposite direction. Many Chinese models started off proprietary and then were later opened up (like many of the larger Qwen models)

> We've seen all the American models be closed and proprietary from the start.

Most*.

OpenAI, contrary to popular belief, actually used to believe in open research and (more or less) open models. GPT1 and GPT2 both were model+code releases (although GPT2 was a "staged" release), GPT3 ended up API-only.

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