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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#241

Post by gambiting »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #146
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

I'd rather my phone be waterproof than have a battery I can replace myself

Plenty of phones that were waterproof and had replacable batteries already. This isn't new or even particularily hard to do.

For a simplest example - somehow my watch is waterproof to 200M down and replacing the battery just takes a tiny screwdriver. Gaskets are not particualarly hard to work with.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#242

Post by hirako2000 »

LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

Obviously it helps with the design to embed. But it's also obvious so hard to replace batteries are by design to make those phones throw away after the 1000cycle or whatever batties last.

A good middle ground would have been to enforce an easy to replace specification..but then we are up to interpretation.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#243

Post by konschubert »

jszymborski wrote: post #233
LazyMans wrote: post #220

This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size. Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we h…

I know a common refrain with my friends is "IDGAF about an extra few centimeters, give me an audio jack". I think consumers are down for thicker phones if they get something for it. In this case, a phone that lasts longer

People say that but then they don’t buy the phones.

There is a difference between revealed and stated preference.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#244

Post by jacekm »

infecto wrote: post #45

I am simply not a fan of this type of legislation. It reminds me of CA bullet button. I also don’t quite understand the purpose. Official retail cost from Apple in the US ~$120. Third-party you can usually get it around $60. Sure the battery does not have quick accessibility but I can replace it pretty cheaply.

$60 has different value in other parts of the world.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#245

Post by stanac »

zbrozek wrote: post #217
proee wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be "fixed" right now by a software update that limits the maximum charge level to 80% of capacity. However, this comes at the cost of how many minutes of runtime your phone can operate. So manufactures might just responds to this by making your phone heavier with a bigger battery that is being under utilized.

This sounds great. I would've loved to have set my phone to charge up to only 60% or 80% of its design capacity to reduce wear. I do this on my laptop.

I charge my s25 to 80%. Previous phone (pixel) was also limited to 80%, but radio stopped working after 2 years so I had to buy a new phone.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#247

Post by jandrewrogers »

brk wrote: post #147
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

In a perfect world, sure. But people also want phones these days that are physically durable, have some degree of waterproofing/water resistance, maximum battery life, etc. Many of the demands and expectations of a modern phone aren't easily compatible with a replaceable battery design that can withstand the incompetence of the average end user.

The missing part is "at a specific price point".

There is a lot you can do with advanced materials science but as you get close to the high end of capability the cost goes up very rapidly and the ability to scale production is reduced.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#248

Post by nonethewiser »

pyrale wrote: post #232
nonethewiser wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engage with the content of his comment instead of resorting to ad hominem. He's right - the market wants embedded batteries, although perhaps not directly. Embedded batteries have improved price, battery capacity, water proofing, size, and strength. If the consumer really wanted a removable battery and all that that entails then there would be more phones that offered that. The reality is people misjudge what all tha…

You say "the market wants" like consumers are given much choice. Using that hypothesis, the market also loves cookie banners and prefers subscriptions over one-time payments.

You can buy phones with non-embedded batteries but they suck. That's not a coincidence.

What is your hypothesis for why more phones arent designed with non-embedded, directly replacable batteries? If it's such a highly valued trait in a phone, why doesnt some company just gobble up that market share? Why havent existing solutions sold well? Mine is that consumers dont actually value non-embedded batteries when accounting for all the tradeoffs. What's your hypothesis?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#249

Post by UltraSane »

proee wrote: post #205
twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

This could be "fixed" right now by a software update that limits the maximum charge level to 80% of capacity. However, this comes at the cost of how many minutes of runtime your phone can operate. So manufactures might just responds to this by making your phone heavier with a bigger battery that is being under utilized.

Samsung phones let you limit them to 80% charge. I've had this enabled since I got my current phone.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#250

Post by mzmzmzm »

twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

I wonder if this is part of why Apple is behind most competitors in terms of fast charging. Would almost make marketing sense to come out and say it at this point.
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