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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#191

Post by wvbdmp »

thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

That will probably come when EV marketshare is higher and innovation plateaus. I definitely appreciate the phone thing as someone typing from an iPhone SE. I also think phone batteries degrade faster than cars, right? I think my phone is from 2022 and I’m definitely starting to feel it.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#192

Post by MSFT_Edging »

mentalgear wrote: post #58

I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able. > If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt

I recently did a battery replacement on an iphone mini 13 with some success and some failure. I absolutely killed the screen without cracking it. A little too much pulling with the ifixit reverse clamp.

Had i gone a little slower, it would have been a very easy repair.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#193

Post by seba_dos1 »

I have never used a phone without easily replaceable battery (where "easily" means no screwdriver necessary, just pop the backcover and pull the battery out). It just happened this way, but I think I'd refuse to buy one anyway, as aside of obvious repairability and maintainability issues having the battery sealed in is also a big factor that makes dropping the phone so dangerous. When I drop my phone, the battery is easily set free to disperse its kinetic energy away from more fragile parts of the device, so it's much harder to break the phone this way. I have made some small dents and scratches from drops over the years, but no serious damage.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#194

Post by dismalaf »

pastel8739 wrote: post #187
tempest_ wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. All of those can be achieved with replaceable batteries.

Citation needed. It seems pretty clear that a mechanism to allow a user to access a battery will increase complexity, making all the other properties harder to achieve.

It'll increase the size of the case by a small amount but a battery cell is a battery cell... Rip open an old device and you'll see.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#195

Post by philipallstar »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #87
Clamchop wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of that same sentence, " – and that if specialised tools are required, they must be provided free of charge when the phone or tablet is purchased," seems to mitigate that concern, no? I suppose it hinges on what the test for a "specialized tool" is.

EU regulatory bodies haven’t been as blindly sycophantic towards megacorporations in terms of allowing them to skirt by rules set forth by their legislatures, so I would be more optimistic than if this were a development in US law.

Well yes, that's where the innovation happened. Collecting fines based on regulation without innovation is easy street.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#196

Post by jandrewrogers »

ponector wrote: post #174
thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

You bought a car with some range, you are fine with it. Why you have to replace it with longer range? Should I be able to eventually replace gas tank with the larger one in my ICE vehicle?

> Should I be able to eventually replace gas tank with the larger one in my ICE vehicle?

FWIW, that is actually a thing you can do. It is mostly done for SUVs and pickups since the primary use case for the extra range is off-pavement driving and the upgrade is simpler.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#197

Post by Aachen »

t0mas88 wrote: post #131
mentalgear wrote: post #58

I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able. > If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt

My iPhone 14 is 1081 days old, charged every night, battery capacity is reported as 81%. So in Apple's own measurements this is possible. I guess there is some built in spare capacity, but that may still qualify for the exemption?

My experience with an Apple battery saying ~81% longevity remaining is that it'll die when it still reports half full and you open a demanding webpage

It's a genuinely hard problem to measure battery capacity with existing smartphone hardware, also because it's a matter of opinion how much to factor in the peak load capacity (how do you count the bottom 40%, where it can't handle peak draw anymore? Should one include half of it because the phone is still usable but in a degraded state?), so I'm not faulting Apple here at all. They choose to display this estimate and it's better than nothing / better than most manufacturers. Just that you can't take it at face value, even if you charged your phone from 0% to 100% for >=1000 days

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#198

Post by adolph »

mentalgear wrote: post #58

I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able. > If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt

> the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co

But Apple batteries are already user replaceable? I've replaced my own and batteries come with kits that have all the tools and disposable glue strips and seals.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#199

Post by konschubert »

bombcar wrote: post #157
throwaway27448 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my phone be waterproof than have a battery I can replace myself

It's likely impossible to legislate but it would be nice to say "each generation has to have one user-replaceable battery". Everyone who doesn't care (the 99%) can buy the iPhone 19x, and the people who want replaceable batteries can get the iPhone B.

Then the 99% have to pay extra to subsidise the compliance phone for the 1%...

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#200

Post by yolo3000 »

justapassenger wrote: post #184
thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

Useful life of most of the cars is on par with their battery longevity, as long as you have proper thermal management and your usage patterns are not outliers. Focusing on being able to upgrade battery (and to be clear - upgrade, not replaced/repair) is solving 1% problem.

I still drive the car I bought 20 years ago. How long should the useful life of a car be?
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