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Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

politico.eu

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Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#21

Post by mrweasel »

klausa wrote: post #17
mrweasel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what you're competing with. Your competing with a drivers license with a photo (not a great photo) and some countries have pretty easily faked drivers licenses, but others have drivers licenses in hard plastic with holographic features. The credit card doesn't work as age verification.

You're competing with photos of a drivers license.

Not sure if you're joking or not, but Denmark have had people show an edited screenshot of the drivers license app, to get into clubs or buy alcohol.

I think they "fixed" it. I think it has some effect now that only works if you tilt the phone.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#22

Post by Mashimo »

mrweasel wrote: post #21
klausa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're competing with photos of a drivers license.

Not sure if you're joking or not, but Denmark have had people show an edited screenshot of the drivers license app, to get into clubs or buy alcohol. I think they "fixed" it. I think it has some effect now that only works if you tilt the phone.

Bouncer love it, when someone says "oh sorry, I forgot my ID, can you let me in anyway?" they just tell them to download the app :)

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#23

Post by Sweepi »

kdheiwns wrote: post #16
Sweepi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, reality called and says: Like ID, drivers license, credit cards and guns: Phones are sth. you dont just "share" with your kids. Also there is an option to guard the ID App with an additional PIN/Biometric.

A phone isn't going to run off the road and kill 7 people. This is nonsense and you know it. And yes, phones are something parents do "just" share with their kids because nobody is bizarre enough to look at a phone the same way as a gun or a car. It's the YouTube device that can talk to grandma. All you have to do to see proof that it's something people "just" share is to walk into a grocery store and look at parents…

Whats the diff between today giving you phone to your 8-year and making sure /having trust that they do not use it to e.g. order a new toy from Amazon and tomorrow that he is not using to verify they are an adult? I mean, most things today (like accessing porn, buying alcohol) do not require any extra age verification. They can just do it using your phone/accounts.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#24

Post by Mashimo »

mrweasel wrote: post #18
Sweepi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, reality called and says: Like ID, drivers license, credit cards and guns: Phones are sth. you dont just "share" with your kids. Also there is an option to guard the ID App with an additional PIN/Biometric.

That's not reality for many of us. I don't consider my phone a secure device by any means. It has nothing on it that I'd regard as something I'd need to guard against my family. I know a fair number of especially elderly people who want to disable PIN and bio-metrics from their phone, because they view it as a pain to deal with. PINs can also be guessed or someone might look you over the shoulder and steal it that wa…

Oh man, if the kid gets hold of both of their parents phones with login, they could divorce them. I don't have kids yet, so this might change, but I would not give them login and / or unsupervised access.

I don't think you can guess pins, as the phones locks after a few failed attempts.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#25

Post by close04 »

mrweasel wrote: post #18
Sweepi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, reality called and says: Like ID, drivers license, credit cards and guns: Phones are sth. you dont just "share" with your kids. Also there is an option to guard the ID App with an additional PIN/Biometric.

That's not reality for many of us. I don't consider my phone a secure device by any means. It has nothing on it that I'd regard as something I'd need to guard against my family. I know a fair number of especially elderly people who want to disable PIN and bio-metrics from their phone, because they view it as a pain to deal with. PINs can also be guessed or someone might look you over the shoulder and steal it that wa…

You keep using the term “secure” that it sounds like you think education is like a prison sentence. You’re not doing this for security but for safety. A stair gate or drawer child-proofing lock are by no means secure but you use them anyway for the child’s safety.

You can’t just leave every dangerous thing out in the open because you “view it as a pain to deal with” storing them safely and then blame everyone else for the situation that follows.

Our realities might be different but in my reality if you put 0 (zero) effort to keep some critical things safely away from your child because it’s too much of a hassle to do it, or they’ll get around that anyway, etc. then you’re failing your children.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#26

Post by mrweasel »

Mashimo wrote: post #20
mrweasel wrote: post #6

> "Let’s say I downloaded the app, proved that I am over 18, then my nephew can take my phone, unlock my app and use it to prove he is over 18." While I appreciate the zero-knowledge proofs is considered, how the hell did no one in charge of the app design think of this? It's is literally the first question I asked when I first heard about this app. You go to the app in a store to buy alcohol, you're asked to verify…

How does the nephew unlock the phone and app?

If it's just a PIN, and the PIN is his aunts birthday, it might not be much of a challenge. We also have to consider the cases where the adult is complicit, in these cases the app is even less secure than photo ID (for store purchases, not necessarily online).

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#27

Post by kdheiwns »

Sweepi wrote: post #23
kdheiwns wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A phone isn't going to run off the road and kill 7 people. This is nonsense and you know it. And yes, phones are something parents do "just" share with their kids because nobody is bizarre enough to look at a phone the same way as a gun or a car. It's the YouTube device that can talk to grandma. All you have to do to see proof that it's something people "just" share is to walk into a grocery store and look at parents…

Whats the diff between today giving you phone to your 8-year and making sure /having trust that they do not use it to e.g. order a new toy from Amazon and tomorrow that he is not using to verify they are an adult? I mean, most things today (like accessing porn, buying alcohol) do not require any extra age verification. They can just do it using your phone/accounts.

Not everyone views their child as an enemy that just happens to be in close quarters with them. Most people trust their kids to generally not do bad things. People keep knives in their kitchen and kids, explain the danger, and kids are generally responsible enough to not play with them.

If this is a concept that you can't grasp, then words will never convey it. It's simply a detachment from reality to think people are viewing their phones as a loaded gun and their child as someone hellbent on betraying them and causing massive societal damage.

The phone is the YouTube device. If they get a notification that their kid ordered from Amazon, they'll cancel the order and tell their kid not to do it again. It's seriously that simple. Just go and talk to a parent. They'll think viewing their phones as a WMD is insane.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#28

Post by mrweasel »

close04 wrote: post #25
mrweasel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not reality for many of us. I don't consider my phone a secure device by any means. It has nothing on it that I'd regard as something I'd need to guard against my family. I know a fair number of especially elderly people who want to disable PIN and bio-metrics from their phone, because they view it as a pain to deal with. PINs can also be guessed or someone might look you over the shoulder and steal it that wa…

You keep using the term “secure” that it sounds like you think education is like a prison sentence. You’re not doing this for security but for safety. A stair gate or drawer child-proofing lock are by no means secure but you use them anyway for the child’s safety. You can’t just leave every dangerous thing out in the open because you “view it as a pain to deal with” storing them safely and then blame everyone else fo…

You make it sound like having a phone in public is basically "open carry" which is absolute nonsense.

What do you have on your phone that's dangerous? Phones aren't safety device, and they shouldn't be turned into one.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#29

Post by mrweasel »

Mashimo wrote: post #22
mrweasel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're joking or not, but Denmark have had people show an edited screenshot of the drivers license app, to get into clubs or buy alcohol. I think they "fixed" it. I think it has some effect now that only works if you tilt the phone.

Bouncer love it, when someone says "oh sorry, I forgot my ID, can you let me in anyway?" they just tell them to download the app :)

I don't know about other countries, but here it requires your passport or actual drivers license, and a 12 or 24 hour wait, to actually activate the drivers license app.

Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it

#30

Post by ramon156 »

soco wrote: post #4

"Let’s say I downloaded the app, proved that I am over 18, then my nephew can take my phone, unlock my app and use it to prove he is over 18." - and how is that something that could, or should, be addressed by the app? Are we even serious??

The Solution: constant face tracking /s
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