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Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

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Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#121

Post by AbraKdabra »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

I'm all for private servers, I even started playing WoW on one before playing retail, but Turtle crossed the wrong line and fucked up bad, they deserved what happened. You don't fuck with an IP big as Warcraft like it or not.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#122

Post by protocolture »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

>and Blizzard are well within their legal (and moral) rights to shut that down.

Moral? Nah. They had done work, and they should be able to charge for that work.

Its not Moral to shut a competitor down using tricky IP laws.

If anything this is yet another great example of how immoral IP actually is.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#123

Post by protocolture »

IMcD23 wrote: post #64
RandomGerm4n wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing this with Ascension which is a different server. Turtle was more like Classic WoW but with additional content that fits in as if the official expansions had never existed. So basically it's like Old School Runescape for WoW.

Turtle WoW also attempted to rebuild the entire game client from scratch in Unreal Engine, using Blizzard's art, textures and maps.

Cool and Good.

I mean, thats basically what OpenRA is. Or OpenMW. Or many other indie games where they build a modern engine for old assets.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#124

Post by protocolture »

charcircuit wrote: post #76
drbscl wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-Strike Every MOBA that exists (DotA, LoL, HoN, etc) Team Fortress Killing Floor PUBG Natural Selection Undoubtedly, many more that I can't recall off the top of my head.

>Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, Natural Selection These games used the GoldSrc engine. Any game built on this engine gets called a mod. But this is not what most people actually think of when people are talking about mods. Rust is not a mod of Unity. These are game engines that people built a game using. >DotA This was a custom map. Not a mod. >LoL, HoN These were built on in house game engines and were not a mod. >P…

I like how you keep doubling down, and people keep destroying you. Please keep going. It is very informative for me to watch people correct you.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#125

Post by protocolture »

jmyeet wrote: post #20
Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

Turtle WoW was also porting their fork to Unreal Engine 5 [1] but that got cancelled ~6 months ago due to a Blizzard lawsuit. For anyone unfamiliar with WoW, private servers have been a thing for most of WoW's history. It's unclear to me where the source code came from. I've heard different stories (eg from Chinese servers) and also that it was a greenfield development reverse-engineered from the client. All of this…

>For anyone unfamiliar with WoW, private servers have been a thing for most of WoW's history. It's unclear to me where the source code came from. I've heard different stories (eg from Chinese servers) and also that it was a greenfield development reverse-engineered from the client. All of this was a copyright violation of course and Blizzard have shut down such servers in waves.

It was explained to me, a long time ago, that WoW's traffic was originally unencrypted and a lot of it was reverse engineered from packet captures. Thats now roughly a standard and while people cant sniff modern games, they can just go back to the old mechanics and the old netcode clones are still good.

That was something an old WoW guy told me while he was setting up a local WoW server in college but it feels good.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#126

Post by blharr »

jadbox wrote: post #27
Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

What did they do that was different from other roguelikes?

The comment above is completely wrong, and Im not sure how they got that misconception unless it's an AI fabrication (although it doesnt read like AI)...

Turtle WoW had nothing rougelike about it at all. It was the normal classic WoW experience with added content. I suppose you could say it did a lot different from other roguelikes... because it wasn't one at all

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#127

Post by AbraKdabra »

protocolture wrote: post #122
Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

>and Blizzard are well within their legal (and moral) rights to shut that down. Moral? Nah. They had done work, and they should be able to charge for that work. Its not Moral to shut a competitor down using tricky IP laws. If anything this is yet another great example of how immoral IP actually is.

> using tricky IP laws.

Lol what.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#128

Post by sgtlaggy »

cedws wrote: post #62
saadn92 wrote: post #29

I ran a private server years ago. Two things people in this thread are getting wrong: The engineering is way harder than anyone gives credit for. You're reverse engineering a server protocol from the client binary, writing your own spell systems (thousands of spells, each with edge cases), pathing, instancing, combat mechanics. Then scaling it for a few thousand concurrent players on hardware you're paying for out of…

On the client side how did they do this? I worked with a team reverse engineering another MMO a few years ago and it was because of a plain XML config and game launch args that we could make the client connect to a private server easily without modifications. Blizzard could just implement DRM and put an end to all this, right?

Similar to the XML config you mentioned, WoW uses/used a plaintext config file where a realmlist URL can be set.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#130

Post by [deleted] »

pfdietz wrote: post #118
Waterluvian wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t kill a competitor and then ban their customers from your product.

If you can scare the hell out of other people from using pirate servers in the future, you could come out ahead. And the money from shakedowns could be quite lucrative, if the volume could be made high enough.

[deleted]
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