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College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

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411–420 of 451 posts

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I did tertiary studies in programming there wasn't AI but we did our programming exams in pencil and paper. The "beneficial" prep we had and I had since high school was using punch cards. And 24h turnaround time for compiles. That really makes you think. And you learn how to desk check even thousand line programs. Intense focus, structuring for readability (to catch typos) and simplicity (catch logic errors) hel…

24 hour turnaround for compiles, expected to change a hundred lines and it fail to compile, and you get 4-6 attempts, so up to 6 days to get a thousand line program working? Now you can compile and check a thousand line program in milliseconds. It seems so unarguably more productive, why do you call it a 'pretence' of being more productive?

> Now you can compile and check a thousand line program in milliseconds.

How do you define "productive?" Lines of code written per day? Bugs fixed per man hour? Fewest reported bugs per end user?

The fastest compiler in the world won't help you find all the runtime bugs that simply wouldn't have existed in the days of punch cards, when code was written with with more care and attentiveness since there wasn't a fast edit/compile/test development loop. YMMV, of course.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#412
I sometimes wonder if the next step for expensive, elite universities will be to make exam-by-interview a thing, even for undergraduate work. Get in a room with no electronics allowed, just you and the instructor/TA/whoever, and they interview you. Pretty quickly they are going to know if you learned the material or not.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only defense of the new model is that it forces students to learn throughout the semester, rather than just before the exam. Which is easier and more effectively engages long term memory (like doing more rounds of spaced repetition). I definitely could tell the difference, though most of the time I just studied full 4-7 days before the exam.

In the UK they claimed that girls did worse on one-off exams and so the one-off exams structure favoured boys. When course had more graded coursework, girls did better. So that was the justification used to switching to a less impactful final exam. No idea how true that is. We were also told learning a phonetic alphabet was better for young children learning to read than using the old ABC system. As far as I have hea…

The UK has a real problem with pseudoscientific nonsense invading the education system.

To my knowledge they still teach about audio/visual/kinetic learners and how you should structure the way you learn around which one you are. This has been debunked for decades.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#414

When I did my Computer Science degree the vast majority of courses were 50% final, 30% midterm - even programming exams were hand written, proctored by TAs in class or in the gymnasium - assignments/labs/projects were a small part of your grade but if you didn’t do them the likelihood you’d pass the term exams was pretty darn low. We already had AI proof education.

When I was in university we had the "Honor System"—no proctors, but you had to sign a statement on every exam and assignment that you did not cheat. And if you did cheat, one of your fellow students could report you to the Honor Board. Basically using the prisoners' dilemma to enforce honesty. And the Honor Board were always threatening to bring proctors back if cheating continued. But yeah, everything was hand-writt…

The prisoner's dilemma requires that both people are facing the same consequences and are promised leniency if they give up the other person. I'm struggling to figure out how this conforms to a person giving up a cheater to the honor board. What am I missing?

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#415

When I did my Computer Science degree the vast majority of courses were 50% final, 30% midterm - even programming exams were hand written, proctored by TAs in class or in the gymnasium - assignments/labs/projects were a small part of your grade but if you didn’t do them the likelihood you’d pass the term exams was pretty darn low. We already had AI proof education.

In Spain, the whole university system was like that until like 15ish years ago. Exams were king, in most courses they were worth 80%-90%, and of course always in person. Then we did a university reform, partly with the excuse of aligning with the rest of the EU within the Bologna process (and I say "excuse" because that's what it was, because the politicians introduced some things with that pretense that weren't like…

> and partly to copy the US/UK ways

In the UK it's common for exams to have almost all of the weight. In my Physics degree almost all courses were entirely dependent on the exams.

Including a final exam which examined the entire four-year MPhys course known as General Problems where even getting 30% was considered a good grade!

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#416

I'm old enough to remember a similar controversy over whether to allow calculators in math classes. While most schools were banning them to force kids to learn how to do math without them, my school went the other way. They mandated that every student had one and then changed the assignments and tests to account for it. Gone were questions that had whole number answers that could be computed in our heads. Instead, an…

Interesting thought! I wonder what kind of assignments, etc. would require AI that would still allow assessing how the student has absorbed the knowledge. Maybe the assignment would require sending in the prompts and the whole conversation how the problem was approached and solved?

With the calculator analogy, I think that the calculator automates executing certain algorithms (like multiplication, etc.), but using AI takes away some (most?) of the thinking.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If seven days of study are sufficient to pass the class, why is so little material being taught in one semester? It sounds like the exams are far too easy.

They are cramming for 5-7 days. This is not sustainable for an entire semester.

Cramming and thus not keeping almost any of it in long-term memory or operational knowledge.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#418
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah i really valued learning to code when I didn't have the internet available, if taught me patience and deep thinking, problem decomposition and organic (brain) execution

I learned HTML/CSS from a book on a computer with no internet access. Seemed reasonable at the time but in hindsight was absolutely ridiculous.

Similar to me, I learnt some html tags through a book which was sold at newsstand, once I was at my cousin's house using her computer without internet access, then I wrote a simple html page with the Win 95 cloud wallpaper as background image. My cousin was terrified how I did that!

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK they claimed that girls did worse on one-off exams and so the one-off exams structure favoured boys. When course had more graded coursework, girls did better. So that was the justification used to switching to a less impactful final exam. No idea how true that is. We were also told learning a phonetic alphabet was better for young children learning to read than using the old ABC system. As far as I have hea…

The UK has a real problem with pseudoscientific nonsense invading the education system. To my knowledge they still teach about audio/visual/kinetic learners and how you should structure the way you learn around which one you are. This has been debunked for decades.

> The UK has a real problem with pseudoscientific nonsense invading the education system.

Not just the UK, pedagogy/education is a very soft science, along with any other field that revolves around human behavior (psychology, sociology, etc...).

Using AIs in experiments and studies will be an improvement even if they do not accurately reflect human behavior, just because you don't need a harm review and you can repeat your experiments multiple times under different variables.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#420

When I did my Computer Science degree the vast majority of courses were 50% final, 30% midterm - even programming exams were hand written, proctored by TAs in class or in the gymnasium - assignments/labs/projects were a small part of your grade but if you didn’t do them the likelihood you’d pass the term exams was pretty darn low. We already had AI proof education.

In Spain, the whole university system was like that until like 15ish years ago. Exams were king, in most courses they were worth 80%-90%, and of course always in person. Then we did a university reform, partly with the excuse of aligning with the rest of the EU within the Bologna process (and I say "excuse" because that's what it was, because the politicians introduced some things with that pretense that weren't like…

In my public university in Spain, we always had the option to do a single final exam instead of the continuous assessment, although very few chose it. Generally the continuous assessment was less stressful, and the material stuck better, with room to digest it rather than just cramming for the exam and forgetting it right after. Generally the default expectation was that everyone was a full time student yes, but there were proper accommodations for those that weren't.

It is definitely a lot more work for the professors though, most of my family are teachers. It's a lot of assessments and it's very rare to have funding for TAs. Some think that the extra work with worthwhile for the sake of transmitting the knowledge more effectively, but not all of them do.

Frankly, you sound a bit bitter about it from the professor's perspective, and somewhat rationalizing why it is bad for the students. But students do generally appreciate it, and yes good students too, not just cheaters. I think both good and bad students end up learning more and hating the process less.

Your comments on Bologna do resonate though, it was very confusing when I continued to study in Germany and the Netherlands. The massive reforms were supposed to be for alignment with EU, but if anything it got more misaligned. They unified all 3 and 5 year degrees into 4 year degrees, but in most of EU all degrees are 3 years now, for instance.

Regarding the parent comment, indeed, my Computer Science degree was mostly hand-written exercises and exams, and it wasn't that long ago. The degree is about fundamentals, about understanding concepts and applying them, about the tools you need to learn anything in CS afterwards. You are expected to learn most of the practical skills for building software on your own, since they are ever-changing. And I have to say, that style of education has served me very well in my career.

PS: I was also surprised to learn that most of the undergrad exams in Germany, and some in NL, are oral. I can see how that might be a disadvantage to some, but writing is also a disadvantage to others. I quite liked it, less intense than a long written exam, and I think the professor can get a much clearer understanding of the student's grasp of the subject. But again, it's a ton of work for the professor, 20-30 mins per student one-on-one, giving them your full attention, adds up quickly.

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