They're great but I wish Hetzner had a US (or CA) east coast presence, the latency of going across the ocean is really troublesome. They have some presence for their cloud offering, so they at least have some experience with the idea.
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Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
311–320 of 454 posts
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#312is a pity that Hetzner does not have monitoring agent like DO. in DO you can set alerts and view all metrics. its this one thing that keeps me from migrating because i dont want to install custom monitoring solutions.
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#313Why did the title get editorialized from the original to omit key facts? That’s some sleazy modding HN.
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on the service and how critical that website is. Sometimes it's completely acceptable that a server will run for 10 years with say 1 week or 1 month of downtime spread over those 10 years, yes. That's the sort of uptime you can see with single servers that are rarely changed and over-provisioned as many on Hetzner are. Some examples: Small businesses where the website is not core to operations and is more…
Respectfully, this type of "high availability" strawman is a dated take. This is a general response to it. I have run hosting on bare metal for millions of users a day. Tens of thousdands of concurrent connections. It can scale way up by doing the same thing you do in a cloud, provision more resources. For "downtime" you do the same thing with metal, as you do with digital ocean, just get a second server and have the…
While I generally agree, this is an exaggeration:
> This level of production grade fail over and simplicity was point and click, 10 years ago.
While some of the tools are _designed_ for point and click, they don't always work. Mostly because of bugs.
We run Ceph clusters under our product, and have seen a fair share of non-recoveries after temporary connection loss [1], kernel crashes [2], performance degradations on many small files, and so on.
Similarly, we run HA postgres (Stolon), and found bugs in its Go error checking cause failure to recover from crashes and full-disk conditions [3] [4]. This week, we found that full-disk situations will not necessarily trigger failovers. We also found that if DB connections are exhausted, the dameon that's supposed to trigger postgres failover cannot connect to do that (currently testing the fix).
I believe that most of these things will be more figured out with hosted cloud solutions.
I agree that self-hosting HA with open-source software is the way to. These softwares are good, and the more people use them, the less bugs they will have.
But I wouldn't call it "trivial".
If you have large data, it is also brutally cheaper; we could hire 10 full-time sysadmins for the cost of hosting on AWS, vs doing our own Hetzner HA with Free Software, and we only need ~0.2 sysadmins. And it still has higher uptime than AWS.
It is true that Proxomox is easy to setup and operate. For many people it will probably work well for a long time. But when things aren't working, it's not so easy anymore.
[1]: "Ceph does not recover from 5 minute network outage because OSDs exit with code 0" - https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/73136
[2]: "Kernel null pointer derefecence during kernel mount fsync on Linux 5.15" - https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/53819
[3]: https://github.com/sorintlab/stolon/issues/359#issuecomment-...
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's possible no one will care much if it's down even for that long. I couldn't care less if my HOA mobile app was down even for a week for example. We don't need constant uptime for everything.
Don’t forget that integrity matters as much as availability in many applications. You might not mind if your HOA takes time to bring a server back up but you’d care a lot more if they lost the financial records or weren’t able to recover from a ransomware attack.
Hetzner provides backups for VPS and machines across all tiers, which are very easy to set up.
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Downtime is a strawman. Clever architecture will always beat cleverly trying to pick only one cloud. Being cloud agnostic is best. This means setting up a private cloud. Hosted servers, and managed servers are perfectly capable of near zero downtime. this is because it's the same equipment (or often more consumer grade) that the "cloud" works on and plans for even more failure. Digital Ocean definitely does not guara…
Sadly, hardware breaks. You still need a working backup and a working failover plan, even if it's just setting up a new server and running your Terraform / Pulumi / Saltstack scripts.
I'm not sure if you read my post.
When you have 2 nodes running, both are mirrored and running, one can have hardware break.
Also, hardware can provide failure notifications before it breaks, and experience teaches to just update and upgrade before hard drives break.
Since tools like proxmox just add a node, you add new hardware, mark the VM for that node to mirror, and it is taken care of.
Terraform etc can sit below Proxmox and alleviate what you're speaking about:
Some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyeoDBUtsU
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#317A few months ago, I looked into AWS alternatives for my small SaaS side project. My main motivations were to save money and maybe support some EU cloud providers. At first, I planned to go with Hetzner and accepted that I would need to do a lot of things myself. However, the dealbreaker for me was that Hetzner IPs have a bad reputation. At work, I learned that one of the managed AWS firewall rules blocks many (maybe…
I wrote about this on a Tor thread.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47279518
It looks like Hetzner is Tor (and Tor adjacent) friendly, I suggested this might affect IP reputation, 2 users responded they had no IP reputation issues. But it looks like that wasn't quite the whole story
https://community.torproject.org/relay/community-resources/g...
It seems that Hetzner holds 7% of the Tor network. (if I understood the table right)
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#318I’m formulating plans to switch from AWS to Hetzner. Amazon gets you by charging high prices (sometimes 20x more than competitors) and forcing you to make long-term commitments in order to get the prices to somewhere more reasonable. Then they make it exorbitantly expensive to migrate your data anywhere else. It’s a very customer-hostile approach that I’m tired of at this point. Amazon might think that they’re lockin…
This used to be true, but GCP forced their hand in January of 2024 with https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/eliminatin... AWS matched a few months later: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/free-data-transfer-out-to-i... I'm not trying to convince you to stay (I work for neither anymore!), just wanted to note that you can technically request a waiver. I'm not sure how this works in practice though. Like, i…
Have you tried to use the DTO? I did. They make you fill in a form saying you'll migrate all services (despite the blog post saying that isn't necessary), and then they take up to 12 weeks to make a decision. In my case they rejected it on a formality after 2 weeks and said to try again (the timer starts again).
So in my case that would have been 14 weeks plus the time to migrate away. The egress costs are equivalent to around 17 weeks storage cost. So you save around 1c/gb if they don't find some reason to reject it.
Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
This used to be true, but GCP forced their hand in January of 2024 with https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/eliminatin... AWS matched a few months later: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/free-data-transfer-out-to-i... I'm not trying to convince you to stay (I work for neither anymore!), just wanted to note that you can technically request a waiver. I'm not sure how this works in practice though. Like, i…
Have you tried to use the DTO? I did. They make you fill in a form saying you'll migrate all services (despite the blog post saying that isn't necessary), and then they take up to 12 weeks to make a decision. In my case they rejected it on a formality after 2 weeks and said to try again (the timer starts again). So in my case that would have been 14 weeks plus the time to migrate away. The egress costs are equivalent…
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Re: Migrating from DigitalOcean to Hetzner
#320>Skyrocketing inflation and a dramatically weakening Turkish Lira against the US dollar
This reasoning does not add up. They could simply say they needed to move somewhere cheaper, like Hetzner. Inflation is still high but getting lower. Weakened Turkish Lira part is not correct because dollar is artificially suppressed for a very long time.