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Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

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Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#61

This seems like a total category error. The Railroads are the only example that actually seems comparable, in being an infrastructure build out that's mostly done by a variety of private companies. Examples of things that would be worth comparing to the datacenter boom are factory construction and utilities (electrification in the first half of the 20th century, running water, gas pipes.)

regardless, it's true that AI-related spending is the largest mobilization of capital in history

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#63
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The railroads and the interstate are arguably the biggest and broadest impact, especially in 2nd order effects (everything West of the Mississippi would be vastly different economically without them). I am not an ai-booster, but I would not be surprised at AI having a similar enabling effect over the long term. My caveat being that I am not sure the massive data center race going on right now will be what makes it ha…

I agree that AI will probably have bigger effects that we could possibly predict right now. But unlike past booms/bubbles, I suspect the infrastructure being built now won't be useful after it resolves. The railroads, interstate system, and dotcom fiber buildout are all still useful. AI will need to get more efficient to be useful as established technology, so the huge datacenters will be overbuilt. And almost none o…

All of the trucks and carts and tools to build the railroads dont exist anymore. Just like the gpus wont either

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#64
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I had no idea the US was still capable of things like that." It's more than just the US though. It's the demand from foreign customers that makes it possible. It's the careful balance between cost and capability that was achieved by the US and allies when it was designed. Without those things, the program would peter out after the US filled its own demand, and allies went looking for cheaper solutions. The F-35 isn'…

Now let's talk about the 155mm artillery shells

Sure. Heavy industry. It's important. Maybe don't send it all to Asia because it's dirtier than software and finance.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#65

Is this an appropriate spend and risk? I'm starting to feel as if we have been collectively glamoured by AI and are not making sound decisions on this.

It doesn't seem like it to me. I like watching Ed Zitron rant about it on YouTube. It's fun.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#66
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with going too far using "money" or "GDP" - you can roughly compare the WWII 45% of GDP spent with today - https://www.davemanuel.com/us-defense-spending-history-milit... because even by WWII much was "financialized" in such a way that it appears on GDP (though things like victory gardens, barter, etc would explicitly NOT be included without effort - maybe they do this?). As you get further and fur…

You don't even need to go that far back to run into issues, when I read Pride and Prejudice, I think Mr. Darcy was one of the richest people in England at around £10,000/year, but if you to calculate his wealth in today's terms it wasn't some outrageous sum (Wikipedia is telling me ~£800,000/year). The thing is that the economy was totally different back then -- labor cost practically nothing, but goods like furnitur…

Newsflash, old antique furniture from around that time is still really expensive even today. It was a hand-crafted specialty product, not run-of-the-mill IKEA stuff. If you compare the prices of single consumer goods while adjusting for inflation, they generally check out at least wrt. the overall ballpark. The difference is that living standards (and real incomes) back then for the average person were a lot lower.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#69
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-35 case is interesting. Lockheed Martin can, given peak rates seen in 2025, produce a new F-35 approximately every 36 hours, as they fill orders for US allies arming themselves with F-35's. US pilot training facilities are brimming with foreign pilots. It's the most successful export fighter since the F-16 and F-4, and presently the only means US allies have to obtain operational stealth combat technology. What…

> Lockheed Martin can, given peak rates seen in 2025, produce a new F-35 approximately every 36 hours ... it's a operating line at full rate production that could conceivably build a US Navy squadron every ~15 days, plus a complete logistics and training system, all on the front burner. That's amazing. I had no idea the US was still capable of things like that. I wonder if there's a way to get close to that, for thin…

We do—our automotive assembly lines. F-22 is more of a deterrent. If we need more, it’s failed.
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