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All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

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Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#41

Post by tarr11 »

lukan wrote: post #27
tim-tday wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the ground on mars is literally toxic. Makes the concept of a Martian colony less appealing. Almost equal to a floating station on Venus. At least there you’d have the correct pressure. I seem to recall that the temperature on Venus at an altitude of one atmospheric pressure is manageable. It’s just also acidic. Possibility easier to deal with than perchlorates.

Without massive terraforming all of Mars is very hostile. But having solid ground is still nice. A workable compromise is making big habitats in a dome, that gives sunlight, but shields from radiation. And the ground needs to be processed obviously. The advantage of Venus to me is is gravity.

I wonder if it will turn out to be easier to adapt lifeforms to the planets than to try to adapt the planets to the lifeforms.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#42

Post by coffeebeqn »

Bender wrote: post #40
corysama wrote: post #34

I recall an article from a long time ago that basically said “astronauts report” the moon smells like spent gunpowder and outer space smell like… I think it was ozone. What they were actually reporting was the smell of the airlocks after they returned from their excursions. The moon has no atmosphere, so it has been accumulating dust from billions of years of asteroid impacts that have never come in contact with oxyg…

My UV sterilizing lights make my room smell like O3 Ozone and that smells nothing like spent gun-powder to me. The only other time I have smelled the same thing is when there has been mass lightening events in the sky. Were they talking about actual black powder or nitrocellulose? I've smelled black powder at the range when people bring out their antique rifles and that also does not smell like Ozone to me.

Photocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone’s forgotten the smell

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#43

Post by lukan »

operatingthetan wrote: post #39
lukan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without massive terraforming all of Mars is very hostile. But having solid ground is still nice. A workable compromise is making big habitats in a dome, that gives sunlight, but shields from radiation. And the ground needs to be processed obviously. The advantage of Venus to me is is gravity.

If we terraform mars, isn't the dirt still toxic?

No, as terraforming means changing that.

Whether it is really possible, is a different question, but after you have an atmosphere, you could have engineered microorganism processing the soil etc.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#44

Post by chromacity »

krunck wrote: post #9

Mars has toxic levels of perchlorates in the regolith. That will require that humans never come in contact with the regolith or things that touched it. Those space suits that dock to vehicles seem like a necessity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchlorate#On_Mars

Calcium perchlorate is only slightly toxic. Not good for you, but living in an environment with background radiation levels 50x higher than on Earth may be your bigger worry...

Still, I'm pretty sure we have plenty of people who wouldn't mind giving it a try.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#45

Post by kzrdude »

card_zero wrote: post #25
tim-tday wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the ground on mars is literally toxic. Makes the concept of a Martian colony less appealing. Almost equal to a floating station on Venus. At least there you’d have the correct pressure. I seem to recall that the temperature on Venus at an altitude of one atmospheric pressure is manageable. It’s just also acidic. Possibility easier to deal with than perchlorates.

Since the perchlorate is generated by reaction with sunlight, it might be limited to a surface layer. Well, I guess that's what regolith means.

Regolith is all the loose stuff, everything that's not bedrock, even if it might be quite deep.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#46

Post by Bender »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #42
Bender wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My UV sterilizing lights make my room smell like O3 Ozone and that smells nothing like spent gun-powder to me. The only other time I have smelled the same thing is when there has been mass lightening events in the sky. Were they talking about actual black powder or nitrocellulose? I've smelled black powder at the range when people bring out their antique rifles and that also does not smell like Ozone to me.

Photocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone’s forgotten the smell

Photocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone’s forgotten the smell

Those are similar but sweeter. If I sterilize a room with UV it has a very distinct smell like nothing else aside from lightening and stun guns. I would UV the bathroom right now but then I have to vent the entire house and its 34F outside right now.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#47

Post by lukan »

tarr11 wrote: post #41
lukan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without massive terraforming all of Mars is very hostile. But having solid ground is still nice. A workable compromise is making big habitats in a dome, that gives sunlight, but shields from radiation. And the ground needs to be processed obviously. The advantage of Venus to me is is gravity.

I wonder if it will turn out to be easier to adapt lifeforms to the planets than to try to adapt the planets to the lifeforms.

Both probably, but you cannot really adapt life to no water and hard radiation. (at most sustain it in stasis, but not growing)

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#48

Post by operatingthetan »

lukan wrote: post #43
operatingthetan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we terraform mars, isn't the dirt still toxic?

No, as terraforming means changing that. Whether it is really possible, is a different question, but after you have an atmosphere, you could have engineered microorganism processing the soil etc.

In that sense then the term "terraforming" is on equal footing with alchemy.

Re: All 12 moonwalkers had "lunar hay fever" from dust smelling like gunpowder (2018)

#49

Post by helterskelter »

corysama wrote: post #34

I recall an article from a long time ago that basically said “astronauts report” the moon smells like spent gunpowder and outer space smell like… I think it was ozone. What they were actually reporting was the smell of the airlocks after they returned from their excursions. The moon has no atmosphere, so it has been accumulating dust from billions of years of asteroid impacts that have never come in contact with oxyg…

At least some ISS astronauts describe smelling burnt metal after returning from EVA, if memory serves. (Others may smell ozone, I've just always remembered hearing burnt metal).
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