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Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

blog.cloudflare.com

61–70 of 106 posts

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#61

This actually looks very useful. Cloudflare seems to be brining together a great set of tools. Not to mention, D2 is literally the only sqlite-as-a-service solution out there whose reliability is great and free tier limits are generous.

* D1, but agreed. I wish Cloudflare would offer a built-in D1-R2 backups system though! (Can be done with custom code in a worker, but wish it was first-party)

yeah this really sucks.

No downtime snapshots would be the best but I'd be quite happy with a blocking backup on a set schedule that can be set from the GUI / from the cli / from a config file. Its a huge PITA having to play 'trust me bro' to clients and their admins with custom workers and backups.

I currently stream it D1 dump -> worker(encrypt w/ key wrapping) -> R2 on a schedule, then have a container spin up once a day and create changesets from the dumps. An external tool pulls the dumps and changesets.

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#63

No spending limit / no ability to set a budget, unlike Google or OpenAI. Be prepared for an eye-watering invoice if you have a bug or get hacked. edit: Why downvote? It's correct, and it's a risk that competitors handle better, including for their CDN products (compared to Bunny CDN). Maybe you are just used to the risk and haven't felt the burn yourself yet. Or you have the mistaken notion that there is no price at…

>Be prepared for an eye-watering invoice if you have a bug or get hacked.

Speaking of:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47787042

I really hope that person gets a resolution from Cloudflare that doesn't financially ruin them.

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#65

So it's basically just openrouter with cloudflare argo networking? I feel like they could do some much more interesting stuff with their replicate acquisition. Application specific RL is getting so good but there's no good way to deploy these models in a scalable way. Even the providers like fireworks which claim to let you deploy LORAs in a scalable way can't do it. For now I literally have to host base load on my a…

Gilfoyle? Is that you?

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#66

So it's basically just openrouter with cloudflare argo networking? I feel like they could do some much more interesting stuff with their replicate acquisition. Application specific RL is getting so good but there's no good way to deploy these models in a scalable way. Even the providers like fireworks which claim to let you deploy LORAs in a scalable way can't do it. For now I literally have to host base load on my a…

Gilfoyle? Is that you?

I think these gpus were actually used for bitcoin mining before I bought them

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#67
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D1 reliability has been bad in our experience. We've had queries hanging on their internal network layer for several seconds, sometimes double digits over extended periods (on the order of weeks). Recently I've seen a few times plain network exceptions - again, these are internal between their worker and the D1 hosts. And many of the hung queries wouldn't even show up under traces in their observability dashboard so…

> And many of the hung queries wouldn't even show up under traces in their observability dashboard How did you work around this problem? As in, how do you monitor for hung queries and cancel them? > D1 reliability has been bad in our experience. What about reads? We use D1 in prod & our traffic pattern may not be similar to yours (our workload is async queue-driven & so retries last in order of weeks), nor have we re…

> How did you work around this problem? As in, how do you monitor for hung queries and cancel them?

You just wrap your DB queries in your own timeout logic. You can then continue your business logic but you can't truly cancel the query because well, the communication layer for it is stuck and you can't kill it via a new connection. Your only choice is to abandon that query. Sometimes we could retry and it would immediately succeed suggesting that the original query probably had something like packetloss that wasn't handled properly by CF. Easy when it's a read but when you have writes then it gets complicated fast and you have to ensure your writes are idempotent. And since they don't support transactions it's even more complex.

Aphyr would have a field day with D1 I'd imagine.

> What about reads? We use D1 in prod & our traffic pattern may not be similar to yours (our workload is async queue-driven & so retries last in order of weeks), nor have we really observed D1 erroring out for extended periods or frequently.

We have reads and writes which most of the time are latency sensitive (direct user feedback). A user interaction can usually involve 3-5 queries and they might need to run in sequence. When queries take 500ms+ the system starts to feel sluggish. When they take 2-3s it's very frustrating. The high latencies happened for both reads and writes, you can do a simple "SELECT 123" and it would hang. You could even reproduce that from the Cloudflare dashboard when it's in this degradated state.

From the comments of others who had similar issues I think it heavily depends on the CF locations or D1 hosts. Most people probably are lucky and don't get one of the faulty D1 servers. But there are a few dozen people who were not so lucky, you can find them complaining on Github, on the CF forum etc. but simply not heard. And you can find these complaints going back years.

This long timeframe without fixes to their network stack (networking is CF's bread and butter!), the refusal to implement transactions, the silence in their forum to cries for help, the absurdly low 10GB limit for databases... it just all adds up. We made the decision to not implement any new product on D1 and just continue using proper databases. It's a shame because workers + a close-by read replica could be absolutely great for latency. Paradoxically it was the opposite outcome.

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#68
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- except that all of their docs and marketing pitches it for use cases like "per-user, per-tenant or per-entity databases" -- which would be SO great. But in practice, it's basically impossible to use that way in conjunctions with workers, since you have to bind every database you want to use to the worker and binding a new database requires redeploying the worker.

If you want to dynamically create sqlite databases, then moving to durable objects which are each backed by an sqlite database seems to be the way to go currently.

And now you've put everything on the equivalent of a single NodeJS process running on a tiny VM. Next step: spread out over multiple durable objects but that means implementing a sharding logic. Complexity escalates very fast once you leave toy project territory.

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#69
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who don’t use Workers, we’ll be releasing REST API support in the coming weeks, so you can access the full model catalog from any environment. Cloudflare seems to be building for lock-in and I don't love it. I especially don't understand how you build an OpenRouter and only have bindings for your custom runtime at launch.

Workers runtime is open source and permissively licensed fwiw https://github.com/cloudflare/workerd

Yes but that is just a tiny part of the whole CF worker ecosystem. The other services are not open source and so the lock-in is very very real. There are no API compatible alternatives that cover a good chunk of the services. If you build your application around workers and make use of the integrated services and APIs there is no way for you to switch to another provider because well, there is none.

Re: Cloudflare's AI Platform: an inference layer designed for agents

#70

So it's basically just openrouter with cloudflare argo networking? I feel like they could do some much more interesting stuff with their replicate acquisition. Application specific RL is getting so good but there's no good way to deploy these models in a scalable way. Even the providers like fireworks which claim to let you deploy LORAs in a scalable way can't do it. For now I literally have to host base load on my a…

Running a rack of 3090s in your garage to avoid provider lock-in/costs is the most Hacker News thing. Out of curiosity, what are you doing for uptime/failover? If you are running production traffic to that garage rack, does your app just degrade gracefully if your home internet drops, or do you have a cloud fallback?
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