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The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

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Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#541

Post by marxisttemp »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #515
pjc50 wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physical robustness. Strength, perhaps brutality. Competence in physical tasks. Honesty. Parentage. Birth order (see primogeniture.) Those matter in per-technological societies, and they matter in failed societies now. Those are perhaps humanity's core values. This is really bleak to me. We can do better than primogeniture, and of course the gender discrimination that goes along with it. You might as well write tha…

Although primogeniture has been discriminatory for basically the entire time it's existed, the discrimination isn't inherent. It's an implementation detail. Modern British Royal succession now uses absolute, gender-neutral primogeniture since 2013. In fact, there are few things less discriminatory than a random birth order. You may as well be assigned a random number at birth, and the lower your number, the more you'…

Primogeniture in any form is discriminatory precisely since birth order is an immutable, permanent, unchosen characteristic assigned randomly at birth, just like race or sex.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#542

Post by AuthAuth »

dripdry45 wrote: post #527
DavidPiper wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a lot of comments like this lately: "Oh well, we were in an anomalous time of social growth, time to go backwards! We won't even need to read or write or think! It's all just too bad, but that's just the way the world works, like it did in 1800." [or pick your date before any current person was alive] Lots of people have started considering a time of significant "progress" as "an anomaly", as if the world…

I have a good friend who doesn’t pay attention to any of this stuff. Nothing gets them down for long, they do pretty well with work, and just enjoy living life simply. They have amassed a reasonable amount of wealth, are moving up at their job, and just don’t pay any attention to all this stuff we here on the Internet talk about all the time. There is no AI black pill because they aren’t caught up in all the headline…

In the short term they may be living their life unaffected but if we're right then they will eventually become affected. Maybe this is enough reason for us to talk about this issue and try and get ahead of it. I dont think its futile or wasted.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#543

Post by chungusamongus »

hackable_sand wrote: post #525
chungusamongus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice for you but other people have kids to feed and don't particularly care about your little crusade, which will fail.

What makes you think none of us have families?

If you have a family and you are doing what this guy is suggesting, that is extremely concerning to me. Seeking a low wage, menial job at a time when costs are rising due to the oil spike? Dumbest move you could make.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#544

Post by AuthAuth »

mplanchard wrote: post #202
MarcelOlsz wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have this misconception that first it was one way, and then , and they'll wake up and suddenly it is another. It's a slow creep. 10 years ago there were 5 of us on a team each responsible for something specific. Now I can do all of that. Teams and companies will downsize. How do you see AI creating more jobs? (I need some hope right now lol).

My hope is that there is a sort of Cambrian explosion of small software projects built by people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing. Many such projects will go nowhere, but some percentage of them will see success and growth. My second hope is that there will always come some threshold of complexity beyond which AI cannot effectively iterate on a project without (at minimum) the prompting of an expert in…

Lots of small companies pumping out software to solve problems. What will happen is companies will switch to their software, get burnt and then never move off established large core tech similar to what we see today but far worse.

These small companies will only be able to sell through basically scam marketing.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#545

Post by archagon »

nradov wrote: post #313
archagon wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 0.001% has a controlling stake in AI, so they're in the clear. The 99.999% needs to assert their controlling stake in the technology. I don't know what this looks like. Maybe ubiquitous unionizing, coupled with a fully public and openly-trained LLM.

There are already several fully open source LLMs. You can start participating in those projects today. https://www.bentoml.com/blog/navigating-the-world-of-open-so...

Are most of these distilled from other models? I'm talking about publicly owned and fully open foundation models, which will require significant government-level investment into GPU farms and training.

No chance of it happening in the US due to lobbying pressure, but maybe in a more civilized country... (unless a distributed SETI@home-type architecture becomes viable)

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#546

Post by larrytheworm »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #535
Animats wrote: post #445

"I could retrain, but my core skills—reading, thinking, and writing—are squarely in the blast radius of large language models." Yes. For the lifetime of almost everyone alive now, reading, thinking, and writing have been valued skills which moved one up in society's hierarchy. This is a historical anomaly. Prior to 1800 or so, those skills were not all that useful to the average farmer. There were more smart people t…

Maybe I am being naive but I think there will always be room for smarts. Every professor at any university has a dozen more project ideas than they have graduate students, every factory boss has a dozen more optimisations than ways to implement them, and looking up into the night sky we have 95% of it that cannot be explained. The gap is not too few smart people, nor too few "jobs" that need smarts. The gap is being…

[flagged]

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#547

Post by eddythompson80 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #528
lukev wrote: post #17

This is a must-read series of articles, and I think Kyle is very much correct. The comparison to the adoption of automobiles is apt, and something I've thought about before as well. Just because a technology can be useful doesn't mean it will have positive effects on society. That said, I'm more open to using LLMs in constrained scenarios, in cases where they're an appropriate tool for the job and the downsides can b…

> Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act > Now might be a good time to call your representatives. Well, not that must-read I guess

Yes, in general government censored speech is inherently not important by the fact the government censored it. Like if it were important it wouldn’t have been censored. Obviously.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#548

Post by anon84873628 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #351
anon84873628 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly. Let's simplify it to the individualist vs collectivist spectrum. Cars became a self-reinforcing driver of individualism, especially in net new geographies. The negative effects are resisted better in societies/regions that were built long before them. (For both the cultural reasons and plain physical reasons, like not having wide enough roads). In the car centric places, a few generations later they beco…

The thing is, the Amish don't try to tell the rest of the world that their way is the "obviously correct" way and that everybody else is doing it wrong, the way anti-personal mobility advocates do.

I don't think a armonster was quite claiming it to be "obviously correct". But rather taking it for granted that this a valid hypothesis:

- We would have gotten most of the social utility of automobiles, without most of the social negatives, if personal vehicles had mostly never happened.

And implied from that, we should stop having them now.

Given the known ills of society, I think those negatives are pretty uncontroversial. To the point that personal car proponents have some burden to explain why we should keep it up.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#549

Post by chungusamongus »

throwanem wrote: post #511
chungusamongus wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did address your point by directly refuting it, and you responded with a total non sequitur. Are you okay buddy? I'm making a relatively basic argument about the ability of households to make ends meet and you're quoting bible passages, looking into my account history, and making random accusations. The guilty flee where none pursueth? You're literally attempting to prosecute me, lmao. But please, "pursueth" away.…

It's remarkable to me that you should be so concerned with my perspective, if you believe me insane as you now claim. (What will it be next? That I have too much time on my hands? That's often next from here.) Evidently you are concerned with my perspective, considering the effort you keep going to to continue to gain its benefit. I've explained why I think that is, and I'm not likely to change my mind at this point.…

Literally every single one of your responses is an attempt to deflect by psychologizing your opponent. It’s very transparent.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#550

Post by sensanaty »

Marha01 wrote: post #118
PsylentKnight wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Troll post? You state that "other people's cars" facilitate thousands of aspects of modern living, then go on to talk about things that trucks do, not personal vehicles

I don't think it's possible to clearly separate personal vehicles from commercial ones. The technology is the same. Any regulation that tries to ban the one while allowing the other would be a huuuge clusterfuck.

> I don't think it's possible to clearly separate personal vehicles from commercial ones

What? Of course it is, you can easily impose rules that apply to personal vehicles that don't apply to public transport, logistical vehicles or emergency vehicles.

As an example in my neighborhood in the Netherlands, there's basically no streets around me where personal vehicles are allowed, but there are no restrictions to buses, delivery vehicles, moving vans, or ambulances.

> Any regulation that tries to ban the one while allowing the other would be a huuuge clusterfuck

How? You don't even have to go fancy with specialized license plates or anything like that, it's literally just common sense.

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