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Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#91

Post by fzeroracer »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #75
GuB-42 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland has a fertility rate of about 1.4 and decreasing, unless they do something, there won't be much of a country left in a few generations. Solutions can involve immigration or natalism, but something has to change. Japan is worse.

A lot of people would rather live in their own aged society than a slightly younger foreign one. Emphasis on slightly younger. Fertility is declining basically everywhere. Much of the developing world is now below replacement including India and China.

'A lot of people' usually means the predominately older strata of society. Japan has been having issues with the younger generation being locked out of employment and advancement because of older generations needing to hold onto their career with a death grip and retirement ages going up.

The aged society scam can only persist as long as they can exploit the younger generation. When that collapses, the end result is either going to be leaving the elderly to die or things start collapsing in new and interesting ways

The only reason why people 'prefer' this is for the same reason 'prefer' to believe climate change doesn't exist. Eventually reality catches up.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#92

Post by ranger_danger »

wk_end wrote: post #47
fl4regun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that JLPT is not a direct equivalent to CEFR. CEFR requires you to pass speaking and writing, JLPT does not demand you to be able to write, or speak, at all. IT only tests listening and reading. This ironically means that while yeah, you will be able to read a LOT of kanji with JLPT N2, you might not be anywhere near B2 level at speaking and conversation, and probably not at all when it comes to wr…

Speaking as someone who reads around N2 level but can barely ask for directions, this is on the mark. I self-study and have few means or reasons to practice speaking, so it's never been a priority for me. But I think this arrangement is actually quite...realistic? Charitable? It's very hard to become conversationally fluent in a language - especially one as foreign for most learners as Japanese is - without the kind…

> have few means or reasons to practice speaking

Hellotalk or italki are great for this.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#93

Post by ranger_danger »

dlcarrier wrote: post #57
eviks wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need that requirement be validated by people and at a level not connection to the place of work?

To prevent fraud. It's the same reason governments have driving tests and tax or grant audits. If the government deferred to applicants for everything, there'd be no point in the application process. Sure, there's a libertarian argument against limiting visas, imposing taxes, and issuing grants, but if you are going to, it requires some amount of enforcement to prevent rampant fraud.

This assumes the government itself isn't the one doing the fraud.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#94

Post by ranger_danger »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #53
fzeroracer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key thing is that the ESI category includes a lot of work which you don't need to know Japanese. For example, software engineering jobs in Japan are often at either larger multinational companies or companies with enough presence outside of Japan that they have teams which are in English. Japan has been on a recent anti-immigration kick via making visas harder and more expensive to get while also blaming them for…

> software engineering jobs in Japan are often at either larger multinational companies or companies with enough presence outside of Japan that they have teams which are in English. Just because you work in a multinational company where they have English speaking teams does not mean that you should not know the language. It is weird to assume that just because your first job is with an English speaking team you will…

> Not understanding what is going on in a country without using some device to translate for you is not acceptable

I knew an American guy who worked for Yahoo Japan in Tokyo for 10 years, and still had zero desire to learn the language.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#95

Post by brendoelfrendo »

mothballed wrote: post #69
nslsm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to a low fertility rate is to… destroy the country? What’s the difference?

[flagged]

This is the most divorced-man comment I've ever read.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#96

Post by laurieg »

Japan is importing record numbers of workers. Most convenience stores and supermarkets in my town (far from Tokyo) are staffed by 'language school students' (an you can work 28 hours a week on a student visa). Agreements [1] between Japan and other countries to bring more workers are making headlines. At the same time, it's getting harder and harder to stay.

Permanent residency applications are being judged incredibly strictly. Citizenship applications need 10 years of continuous residence up from 5. Business manager visas have gone from needing 5m yen of capital to 30m yen.

It seems pretty clear that the goal is to get workers in for some productive years but make the path for staying difficult. I guess that's one way to solve an aging population problem.

To put things in perspective, Japan is an island and has entry and exit controls on the borders, so it is estimated that 0.05% of the population is illegal immigrants (people not leaving when their visa runs out). And the police can and do stop visible minorities to confirm their residence status on the spot. It is compulsory to carry identification documents if you are a foreigner. (There are questions about the legality of this but it is common and widely practiced).

[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2025/10/27/india-valua...

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#97

Post by decremental »

laurieg wrote: post #96

Japan is importing record numbers of workers. Most convenience stores and supermarkets in my town (far from Tokyo) are staffed by 'language school students' (an you can work 28 hours a week on a student visa). Agreements [1] between Japan and other countries to bring more workers are making headlines. At the same time, it's getting harder and harder to stay. Permanent residency applications are being judged incredibl…

[dead]

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#98

Post by tomhow »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #80
LAC-Tech wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discourse feels like you are deliberately pretending not to understand things.

[flagged]

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Please don't fulminate...

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#99

Post by timr »

freetime2 wrote: post #28

As someone who has been living in Japan for years now, and still has a long way to go learning the language, I generally support language proficiency requirements. First, it should be noted that these are fairly common sense requirements designed to reduce fraud - requiring people applying for work visas that require Japanese proficiency to actually be able to speak Japanese. I suspect there will be more requirements…

> And second - it’s really hard to participate in society if you can’t speak the language. I think this creates resentment for both Japanese citizens and foreign residents alike.

I basically agree, but there are two problems with this:

1) the JLPT is a test of fairly academic reading and listening (for those unfamiliar, it’s basically the equivalent of the US SAT reading/vocab section in terms of difficulty). There’s no speaking or communication requirement. I probably cannot pass N2, despite being conversant and functional in everyday life at a high B1 level.

2) The populations who are most likely to abuse the current system are fairly notorious for being able to pass the exam without real communication ability. I know a fair number of people who were able to pass without being able to have even a basic conversation at the time.

Language schools here are essentially factories designed to shove kanji readers through the JLPT in minimum time, with little attention paid to conversation. Overall, this feels like a sledgehammer approach to a screwdriver problem.

Re: Japan implements language proficiency requirements for certain visa applicants

#100

Post by rayiner »

platinumrad wrote: post #83
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know anything about Switzerland, but immigration isn’t a solution to the prospect of Japan “not having a country left in a few generations.” There might be more or fewer people living on the islands, but “Japan” will be gone either way.

How do you define "Japan"?

The standard way. The same way you define “Thailand” or “Bangladesh” or “Vietnam?”
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