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The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

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Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#371

Post by chungusamongus »

yubblegum wrote: post #324
chungusamongus wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I'm not saying the jihad was the cause. But elimating AI didn't prevent the feudal system. It didn't really help, in other words. Honestly, I kinda think Herbert just didn't want to have AI or sophisticated robots in his narrative, so he contrived an elaborate reason why that tech doesn't exist.

But it did "help". Mentats had supercomputer computation capabilities; navigators folded space and charted non-collision paths; warriors had robocop like abilities. These were developed precisely because the use of thinking machines was forbidden. I don't think feudalism is going away one way or another. It persists [in various forms] because of certain biological realities, ranging from genetics to loyalty engendere…

There are a number of different things being conflated here. My inital statement was just acknowledging the lack of appreciation of the subtext behind the Butlerian Jihad. People are unironically embracing it, which I gather is not really how the event functions in Dune.

At the level of the text, none of those things you mentioned strike me as positive developments. They just siloed computation to a biological track and those biological resources are employed by those in power, which is the same problem in a different form.

This is an aside, but feudalism is not inevitable. The vestiges of it still exist, but capitalism largely upended it.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#372

Post by ButlerianJihad »

skrtskrt wrote: post #367
CamperBob2 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, the Amish don't try to tell the rest of the world that their way is the "obviously correct" way and that everybody else is doing it wrong, the way anti-personal mobility advocates do.

“Anti-personal mobility” is beyond absurd, absolute loony-bin stuff. “Anti-personal mobility advocates” do not exist. Transit advocates exist, and improvements in transit also massively benefit those who need to or prefer to drive.

Most motorists absolutely hate e-scooters and e-bikes. They hate them with a white-hot passion. You will never see more road rage than against a scooter when I ride it in a traffic lane. The scooter goes about 17mph, and with 3+ traffic lanes available to cars, they will pile up behind a scooter, scream out their open windows, honk and cut me off, and spit in my face: yes literally spit all over my face, because they hate personal mobility so much.

Motorists hate anything that isn't a car and is in their way. Motorists hate Critical Mass; they hate light rail or streetcars that hog their rights-of-way; they hate pedestrians (especially when pedestrians aren't wearing the right clothes); they hate Lyft, Uber, and Waymo especially; they hate big trucks and they hate Amish people with horse-drawn buggies.

Motorists will establish coalitions to vote against public transit measures in their home towns. They have come out in City Council and other public meetings, to protest and rail, so to speak, to rail against the expansion of light rail into their neighborhoods, because not only do they hate the construction, but they hate the "type of people" that light rail brings, and ultimately they hate the gentrification that comes from a fixed-route project that will ultimately close their shitty exploitive businesses and replace them with more elevated exploitation and richer moguls.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#373

Post by asdff »

neutronicus wrote: post #341
asdff wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw the only place I had a bike stolen was the secured underground garage in my apartment complex. Never had issues just parking it out front while running errands or other such stuff, or parking outside work during the day. I'd figure foot traffic would keep angle grinding down. I've personally not seen angle grinding done that brazenly before, seems liable overnight though where the thief has time to work and the…

> Shops or restaurants don't seem to care if a bike is parked in the corner... This doesn't scale to wider bike adoption, though.

By that point there will be more infrastructure like more racks (and eyes on street as a result). Chances are you will be the only one doing this. But again if 10 people start doing it at once, awesome stuff for your city is coming I'm sure.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#374

Post by chungusamongus »

dilDDoS wrote: post #360
chungusamongus wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just said was an elaborate tu quoque fallacy. You aren't comprehending my basic point, which is that individual ethical decisions are not going to make a difference when all of the broader incentives are causing people to act otherwise.

Really weird that you're basically advocating people to not have principles if they don't align with "broader incentives". Also lol at you pulling the "some people have kids to feed" bullshit in a thread where we're all making way more money than most people.

I think some of you do not have a grasp on systems thinking at all, and its embarassing for people who supposedly frequent communities like these. I'm not advocating anything. I'm making a descriptive statement. I do worry that basic lack of understanding between descriptive and normative claims is contributing to the confusion here.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#375

Post by dpark »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #358
dpark wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buses will suck Buses are only workable because of cars. We build roads for cars first and trucks second. Buses are at most 3rd in the list and getting to use them is an incidental side benefit. No one builds enough roads for buses. They have to use the roads built for cars.

Many places build dedicated bus lanes, and a few places build roads specifically dedicated to buses, like the Queensland Busway system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busways_in_Brisbane

That’s cool but one counterexample does not negate the general trend. Most places have few dedicated bus lanes. Most cities have approximately zero dedicated bus roads.

Even the cited system seems to be limited and exists to connect with trains as well as buses that use normal streets. Wikipedia says that they chose buses for this expansion instead of trains specifically because there was already a strong bus system, which uses the same city streets as cars and trucks.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#376

Post by jakejoyner »

I think it is really easy for us to be dogmatic when talking about the future, as when we know what is going to happen, it quells our fears. I think, in reality, no one knows what is going to happen with AI. We are at a turning point in human history, and it is easy to blame Anthropic's engineers and tell them to quit their job, but the reality is that they are probably in the same position you are. There is no one true solution. We do not know if this is going to be analogous to automobiles - we don't know anything. I think it is courteous to think about these things before telling people to quit their jobs.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#377

Post by defterGoose »

nradov wrote: post #310
geremiiah wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point is, if an AGI becomes powerful and capable enough of replacing 99.999% of humanity, the likes of Sam Altman and Elon Musk won't be able to control it.

An electrician with access to a circuit breaker will be able to control it.

It's only a little bit comforting that computers still live in meatspace when you consider something like an AI-controlled Metal Gear roaming around though.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#378

Post by andyjohnson0 »

From here in the Uk the site just says:

"Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act [...] Now might be a good time to call your representatives."

So I fired-up a vpn, and it appears to be a personal blog. About ai risks.

The geo-block is kind of a shame, as the writing is good and there appears to be nothing about the site that makes it subject to the OLSA.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess: Where do we go from here?

#379

Post by steve_adams_86 »

denismenace wrote: post #232
grvdrm wrote: post #111

Two years ago, I was enjoying a drink with my wife, her friend, a very senior female VC partner, and another friend. Somehow we talked AI in some depth, and the VC at one point said (about AI): “I don’t know what our kids are going to do for work. I don’t know what jobs there will be to do.” That same VC invests in AI companies and by what I heard about her, has done phenomenally well. I think about that exchange all…

[flagged]

But, what if people putting their energy into ensuring society adapts with the technology safely and positively would be better than focusing on finding ways to capitalize off of whatever happens to occur instead?

I'm not saying one person can do that alone, but if we collectively believe we should focus on capitalization instead, then there's no one present to influence a more constructive, pro-social, sustainable course for society.

So I don't think it's ridiculous to think it's acting against their interests. Money won't get your kids very far if the thing that made you wealthy also pulled the rug from under them. There needs to be more of a strategy than capital.

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