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Codex for almost everything

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Re: Codex for almost everything

#71

Post by andai »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #18
uberduper wrote: post #8

Do people really want codex to have control over their computer and apps? I'm still paranoid about keeping things securely sandboxed.

Programmers mostly don't. Ordinary people see figuring out how to use the computer as a hindrance rather than empowering, they want Star Trek. They want "computer, plan my next vacation to XYZ for me" to lay out a full itinerary and offer to buy the tickets and make the reservations. Knowledge work is work most people don't really want to deal with. Ordinary people don't put much value into ideas regardless of their…

> Ordinary people don't put much value into ideas regardless of their level of refinement

This seems true to me, though I'm not sure how it connects here?

Re: Codex for almost everything

#72

Post by skydhash »

troupo wrote: post #32
cjbarber wrote: post #14

My current expectation is that the Cowork/Codex set of "professional agents" for non-technical users will be one of the most important and fastest growing product categories of all time, so far. i.e. agents for knowledge workers who are not software engineers A few thoughts and questions: 1. I expect that this set of products will be extremely disruptive to many software businesses. It's like when a new VP joins a co…

> My current expectation is that the Cowork/Codex set of "professional agents" for non-technical users will be one of the most important and fastest growing product categories of all time, so far. They won't. Non-technical users expect a CEO's secretary from TV/movies: you do a vague request, the secretary does everything for you. LLMs cannot give you that by their own nature. > And eventually will the UI/interface b…

> Non-technical users expect a CEO's secretary from TV/movies: you do a vague request, the secretary does everything for you. LLMs cannot give you that by their own nature.

Most people are indifferent to computers. A computer to them is similar to the water pipeline or the electrical grid. It’s what makes some other stuff they want possible. And the interface they want to interact with should be as simple as possible and quite direct.

That is pretty much the 101 of UX. No deep interactions (a long list of steps), no DSL (even if visual), and no updates to the interfaces. That’s why people like their phone more than their desktops. Because the constraints have made the UX simpler, while current OS are trying to complicate things.

So Cowork/Codex would probably go where Siri is right now. Because they are not a simpler and consistent interface. They’ve only hidden all the controls behind one single point of entry. But the complexity still exists.

Re: Codex for almost everything

#74

Post by mcmcmc »

avaer wrote: post #48
incognito124 wrote: post #35

I swear OpenAI has 2-3 unannounced releases ready to go at any time just so they can steal some thunder from their competitors when they announce something

They did acquire TBPN, this barely needs tin foil. Credit to them for being media savvy.

Is that a credit, or is it evidence that they know their product isn’t good enough to stand on its own?

Re: Codex for almost everything

#75

Post by bdcravens »

incognito124 wrote: post #35

I swear OpenAI has 2-3 unannounced releases ready to go at any time just so they can steal some thunder from their competitors when they announce something

Perhaps, but that strategy can backfire if you're planting a subpar comparison in the minds of customers.

Re: Codex for almost everything

#76

Post by baq »

andai wrote: post #69
thomas34298 wrote: post #16

Does that version of Codex still read sensitive data on your file system without even asking? Just curious. https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/2847

https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1r186gl/my_agent_... tldr Claude pwned user then berated users poor security. (Bonus: the automod, who is also Claude, rubbed salt on the wound!) I think the only sensible way to run this stuff is on a separate machine which does not have sensitive things on it.

'it's your fault you asked for the most efficient paperclip factory, Dave'

Re: Codex for almost everything

#77

Post by planb »

postalcoder wrote: post #58
cjbarber wrote: post #14

My current expectation is that the Cowork/Codex set of "professional agents" for non-technical users will be one of the most important and fastest growing product categories of all time, so far. i.e. agents for knowledge workers who are not software engineers A few thoughts and questions: 1. I expect that this set of products will be extremely disruptive to many software businesses. It's like when a new VP joins a co…

I agree with the sentiment but I think for normie agents to take off in the way that you expect, you're going to have to grant them with full access. But, by granting agents full access, you immediately turn the computer into an extremely adversarial device insofar as txt files become credible threat vectors. For all the benefits that agents offer, they can be asymmetrically harmful. This is not a solved issue. That…

How many of these threat vectors are just theoretical? Don’t use skills from random sources (just like don’t execute files from unknown sources). Don’t paste from untrusted sites (don’t click links on untrusted sites). Maybe there are fake documentation sites that the agent will search and have a prompt injected - but I haven’t heard of a single case where that happened. For now, the benefits outweigh the risk so much that I am willing to take it - and I think I have an almost complete knowledge of all the attack vectors.

Re: Codex for almost everything

#79

Post by skydhash »

andai wrote: post #71
entropicdrifter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers mostly don't. Ordinary people see figuring out how to use the computer as a hindrance rather than empowering, they want Star Trek. They want "computer, plan my next vacation to XYZ for me" to lay out a full itinerary and offer to buy the tickets and make the reservations. Knowledge work is work most people don't really want to deal with. Ordinary people don't put much value into ideas regardless of their…

> Ordinary people don't put much value into ideas regardless of their level of refinement This seems true to me, though I'm not sure how it connects here?

Not the parent.

People want to do stuff, and they want to get it done fast and in a pretty straightforward manner. They don’t want to follow complicated steps (especially with conditional) and they don’t want to relearn how to do it (because the vendor changes the interface).

So the only thing they want is a very simple interface (best if it’s a single button or a knob), and then for the expected result to happen. Whatever exists in the middle doesn’t matter as long as the job is done.

So an interface to the above may be a form with the start and end date, a location, and a plan button. Then all the activities are show where the user selects the one he wants and clicks a final Buy button. Then a confirmation message is displayed.

Anything other than that or that obscure what is happening (ads, network error, agents malfunctioning,…) is an hindrance and falls under the general “this product does not work”.

Re: Codex for almost everything

#80

Post by tty456 »

I'm sure it's been said before, but more and more our development work is encroaching on personal compute space. Even for personal projects. A reminder to me to air gap those to spaces with separate hardware [:cringe:]
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