Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, don't exaggerate please. A Subway sandwhich is about 600 calories. That's about 1/3 of the daily 2000 calories standard. A Shake Shack shake tops out at 1010 calories, a half of the daily norm.
I'm not talking about Subway. I specifically said deli sandwich. There's no world in which Subway is a deli. As for Shake Shack, a single shake is half of the daily total calorie intake? Are you listening to yourself right now?
AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
181–190 of 202 posts
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I call the author out for not being widely read in areas where they are attempting to coin neologisms. If that seems like insulting someone’s intelligence and telling them to calm down to you then I’m not sure this will be a productive conversation. Coining new terms for established ideas is not intellectual contribution — it is, in Wiredu’s language, the opposite of conceptual decolonization. The topic does not need…
She didn't claim to be an expert, so she doesn't have to satisfy any "standards". You consider yourself intellectual but you don't apply benefit of the doubt? You neither offered reasonable correction, only a thin bun with a lot of beef.
> In the research phase of this article, I came to the conclusion that existing system models are insufficient as they do not describe the process of how human knowledge, ideas and concepts evolve and how they are connected in a form that makes the idea of this work easily understandable. That is why I propose the “Dynamic Dialectic Substrate” to describe a model of cognition including the resulting dynamics and evolution. I hope this system model helps to understand this article. I choose the name “Dynamic Dialectic Substrate” because it symbolizes the obvious dialectic process, but other than the popular understanding of dialectic, it is, in my understanding, not static and rather dynamic, which I wanted to explicitly include in the name. Also, although a substrate is usually thought of as something passive, it is used here in a very active way. The idea was that humans (and apparently also AIs) are the actors and the Dynamic Dialectic Substrate is just the pool or medium out of which the actors draw their dialectics and, in doing so, changing the substrate itself. One could also say that the Dynamic Dialectic Substrate is just Pragmatism (C.S. Peirce’s logic of abduction) or Evolutionary Epistemology… if you have this perspective, please ask yourself if it is really REALLY the same and if the Dynamic Dialectic Substrate is not a much better representation of what needs to be grasped here.
I know that there are many theories of cognition like Conceptual blending, Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis and also in some sense Memetics, but they all catch only parts of what we need here to understand the problem, like they only describe the mechanism of cognition or the transport mechanism of memes. The Hegelian Dialectic is too abstract, widely misunderstood, and bloated while vague at the same time. For example, the Hegelian Dialectic is often perceived as static and not dynamic, although Hegel would probably be very angry about that. It is by the way a common misconception that the Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis model is from Hegel, it is actually from Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus. ↩
Dialectic, also known as the dialectical method, refers originally to dialogue between people holding different points of view about a subject but wishing to arrive at the truth through reasoned argument. Dialectic resembles debate, but the concept excludes subjective elements such as emotional appeal and rhetoric; the object is more an eventual and commonly held truth than the ‘winning’ of an (often binary) competition.
I have provided several references to authors who developed material subject to peer review that would belong in an properly cited article. You have contributed exactly nothing to the discussion except trying to imply I am responding out of sexism, and then implying that someone referencing Peirce and stating they feel there is a need for a new informational substrate without engaging with any of the work since is not acting as an “intellectual.”
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
We would literally not have access to this criticism without the written word. It would have long been lost to time. And so it is with enumerate other thoughts that happily have been recorded. Before written word, the uneducated had to just take the words of the (apparently) wise as an authority on all matters, and the only access to their knowledge was through conversation with them. That's gatekeeping and siloing i…
> We would literally not have access to this criticism without the written word. It would have long been lost to time. And so it is with enumerate other thoughts that happily have been recorded. No. Without the written word, this criticism would not have even existed. There would have been no point to make it. Who criticizes something that doesn't exist?
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
She didn't claim to be an expert, so she doesn't have to satisfy any "standards". You consider yourself intellectual but you don't apply benefit of the doubt? You neither offered reasonable correction, only a thin bun with a lot of beef.
Let’s not avoid the problem by being disingenuous. The below, to you, does not qualify as trying to be an intellectual? The author skips over 150 years of engagement with Peirce and tries to go straight back to the source but fails to locate any actual reason to do so: > In the research phase of this article, I came to the conclusion that existing system models are insufficient as they do not describe the process of…
You again go on an pseudo intellectual LLM assisted rampage just for the win. You don't contribute to the discussion, you erode it.
It's nuts that I use the pronouns of the author, and you turn it into an sexism accusation.
You are a shill.
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why and how do you think it applies to broader domains? Children learning in schools should not become product managers. If they are, what exactly is the "product" that they are "managing"? Reducing everything to and looking everything from a corporate viewpoint is bizarre.
I'm not saying this should be every single domain. This isn't about products or management, instead I would frame it like this: I notice that multiple cases where we are worried about the impact of AI are basically just about the replacement of certain activities that some humans already aren't doing in today's society. If we are worried we will be less good at doing job X once we don't do job X anymore, why are we n…
None of this is equivalent to the topic of discussion. The point is that even in a world of division of labour and shared expertise, there is no atrophy in general populace because someone is trying to become expert in something. The whole point is that the brain is being put in use to do something. If not in X, then in Y. If none of the alphabets are available, where do you put your brain in use to?
>I would not assume someone who won the lottery is going to have their life become uninteresting or see some cognitive decline. It could probably happen, but you can also see a path where the person just chooses to do the activities they always wanted to do, where they keep learning and exploring without the burden of usual life constraints. People already play chess when machines have beaten us for decades, just because they enjoy it.
Again, please play attention to the main idea of the article linked. Most of cognitive development happens in the early formative years. Yes, learning itself never stops, but the primary period of it during perhaps the first 25 years of someone's life. You NEED to make mistakes and learn from them during this period. If you are offloading work that your brain was supposed to do here, it's extremely worrying.
>Regarding education I think AI is a huge revolution waiting to happen. Usual courses have become boring? Have future super powerful AI generate per student highly personalized programs, create bespoke video games where succeeding can only happen once the student has validated all the notions you wanted them to validate etc.
I think there is some truth to it, but you need to regulate how much AI can assist a student. It can be a patient teacher but it shouldn't replace their cognitive abilities. That is the whole point.
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternatively he sees that you live in your house alone and feel lonely all the time. Maybe you have a small family and a few friends but it's nothing compared to the tribal life he knows. He sees you spend your day working but rarely get to go outside or do anything active. Even when you're not working you sit behind a desk staring at a screen. He wonders why you bother will all the technology when it made your life…
I agree partially, but also misses the wonder he would have for: relaxing bathtubs, funny livestreams, wireless earbuds, huge libraries, and even globes. And yeah, you could make a list of struggles we have today he never did. But that’s kind of my point - it’s complicated.
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#187It is a quirky article but the author, instead of engaging with information sources to understand what important thoughts people have had about these topics, feels the best thing to do is introduce new terms that other terms already exist for. This is basically just inductive bias plus the AI homogenization idea producing a distribution shift. This is what happens in thought-isolation. It isn’t better than educating…
> But what actually happens is we have formalized processes and can externalize them. Even if I believe that is what happens in 10% of uses of AI, it doesn't excuse what happens with the rest. Many people can not do mental math anymore and still more question why we need to learn math at all in the first place when we have simple calculators. "When will I ever use XYZ?" is a common refrain. AI is currently developed…
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only either indirectly or extremely partially. Everybody was driving by the 40s in the US but the obesity epidemic didn't start until the late 70s. Really, obesity is an example of exactly what the GP was talking about- our evolved relationship with food is not inherently good, and it's better for us to change our behaviors than to abandon our advancements and return to the food-scarce world we're adapted to.
>our evolved relationship with food is not inherently good, and it's better for us to change our behaviors than to abandon our advancements and return to the food-scarce world we're adapted to. So are you arguing we should change our relationship with human intelligence? What does that even mean?
Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#189Re: AI-assisted cognition endangers human development?
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let’s not avoid the problem by being disingenuous. The below, to you, does not qualify as trying to be an intellectual? The author skips over 150 years of engagement with Peirce and tries to go straight back to the source but fails to locate any actual reason to do so: > In the research phase of this article, I came to the conclusion that existing system models are insufficient as they do not describe the process of…
I said she didn't claim to be an expert. I said you consider yourself an intellectual. Don't twist my words for your false arguments. I wanted to hear from you that you are just slamming her for the sake of it. I got multiple answers. You again go on an pseudo intellectual LLM assisted rampage just for the win. You don't contribute to the discussion, you erode it. It's nuts that I use the pronouns of the author, and…
I am not sure what argument you are making about sexism but it seems like we are not having the same conversation.
We disagree that “not claiming to be an expert” is sufficient cover for “apparently not having read much at all in the topical area.”
I am a shill for what?