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How can I keep from singing?

blog.danieljanus.pl

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Re: How can I keep from singing?

#11

Post by swyx »

bobbiechen wrote: post #7
swyx wrote: post #5

i've sung since discovering choir and acapella at age 16. gave it up right after college. never thought i'd return to it again. discovery this year is despite being almost 40 and obviously busy/an engineer/founder who will never make it professionally, you CAN still find outlets to indulge in the creative side and perform for others! https://x.com/swyx/status/2043217991589102027 its scary but it stretches you in new…

It's interesting how many people I know who jump instantly from hobby to thinking about hustling, Etsy, Patreon, fame, etc. and the thought that they'll never be good enough to go pro is a real barrier. You don't need to monetize your joy.

err ok but i wasnt saying to monetize (not that you were saying it)

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#12

Post by j_bum »

Loughla wrote: post #10
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a spectrum. Mozart was a prodigy at 6. Most people are average, and almost everyone who is good practiced for years, but the people who are really good no doubt had some natural gift.

I don't know about that with music. Outside of absolute prodigies, my experience with instruments is that the more you practice the better you get. It's not like sports where practice can only take you so far before genetics absolutely rules the field. So it strikes me that most people can be really really good, but only if they put the hours in. You really can work your way into being a musical genius with an instru…

As someone with a BM in piano performance - I’m of the strong opinion that there’s a natural baseline and ceiling. Practice can only get you so far.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#14

Post by ngriffiths »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #9
schwartzworld wrote: post #8

> who could “do music”... were born, I felt, gifted in a way that I was not Maybe it's true for some people but I generally think it isn't. The secret to being able to play an instrument is studying or practicing a little every day for 20 years. Some people get there faster but unless you have mobility issues, most people can learn enough of an instrument to have fun.

Its a spectrum. Mozart was a prodigy at 6. Most people are average, and almost everyone who is good practiced for years, but the people who are really good no doubt had some natural gift.

It's also extremely nonlinear. I look back on my years of studying piano and the first 7 or so as a kid were basically screwing around compared to the next two, when there was this huge breakthrough. Then another couple years at that level until another huge breakthrough. It's funny, the first one was a breakthrough that came from a great teacher and was sort of a realization that music was way much more deep and interesting than I ever imagined. The second one was barely musical at all, it was just finding a super vibrant music community. If not for some random luck, mindshifts and social experiences like that, I would've quit a fraction of the way in.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#15

Post by MengerSponge »

Loughla wrote: post #10
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a spectrum. Mozart was a prodigy at 6. Most people are average, and almost everyone who is good practiced for years, but the people who are really good no doubt had some natural gift.

I don't know about that with music. Outside of absolute prodigies, my experience with instruments is that the more you practice the better you get. It's not like sports where practice can only take you so far before genetics absolutely rules the field. So it strikes me that most people can be really really good, but only if they put the hours in. You really can work your way into being a musical genius with an instru…

You will not match a symphony professional's talent if you start playing at 30. Even if you work hard. Even if you really want it. You don't have the time.

Work is great, but hard work doesn't yield the same reward to everyone on every instrument. Geniuses did hard work, but they often needed less at every step along the way. That means they advanced faster with the same effort. But that's okay! Learning an instrument for music's sake is a joy.

Anybody can learn an instrument well enough to enjoy it. They can probably learn it well enough to play in a community orchestra. They can learn it well enough to appreciate what the pros do.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#16

Post by MengerSponge »

j_bum wrote: post #12
Loughla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that with music. Outside of absolute prodigies, my experience with instruments is that the more you practice the better you get. It's not like sports where practice can only take you so far before genetics absolutely rules the field. So it strikes me that most people can be really really good, but only if they put the hours in. You really can work your way into being a musical genius with an instru…

As someone with a BM in piano performance - I’m of the strong opinion that there’s a natural baseline and ceiling. Practice can only get you so far.

100% it's baseline, ceiling, and growth rate.

I switched from violin to voice and found more success with less effort.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#17

Post by ngriffiths »

j_bum wrote: post #12
Loughla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that with music. Outside of absolute prodigies, my experience with instruments is that the more you practice the better you get. It's not like sports where practice can only take you so far before genetics absolutely rules the field. So it strikes me that most people can be really really good, but only if they put the hours in. You really can work your way into being a musical genius with an instru…

As someone with a BM in piano performance - I’m of the strong opinion that there’s a natural baseline and ceiling. Practice can only get you so far.

One of my high school piano friends went on to become a concert pianist. The difference between him and the rest of us was that music was everything for him - its what he did to relax, his social life, his hobby, his work, and his passion. There were, like, some months where music felt almost like that for me but for him it always did. I think there's no mysterious talent you have to have, just a psychological problem. if you get genuine fulfillment in all areas of life just by thinking about and doing music all the time, the ceiling is much higher.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#18

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo »

Loughla wrote: post #10
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a spectrum. Mozart was a prodigy at 6. Most people are average, and almost everyone who is good practiced for years, but the people who are really good no doubt had some natural gift.

I don't know about that with music. Outside of absolute prodigies, my experience with instruments is that the more you practice the better you get. It's not like sports where practice can only take you so far before genetics absolutely rules the field. So it strikes me that most people can be really really good, but only if they put the hours in. You really can work your way into being a musical genius with an instru…

It really depends on the person. I've been involved with music in some capacity basically my entire life. I can do pitch but I have never been able to maintain a tempo to save my life (to an almost morbid degree).

I could practice technical skill on an instrument to literally no end but ultimately anything I did outside of a several second stretch by myself was completely disoriented due to a total and complete inability to maintain a tempo even when it's provided to me.

So for me there is just a hard ceiling on my ability to ever perform. I could probably do better with digital music production if I invested the time and energy into it but I'll always have the handicap that I have and knowing that it's hard to even want to invest the time and energy into trying yet another path into music where I'll likely fall flat on my face again.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#19

Post by j_bum »

ngriffiths wrote: post #17
j_bum wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with a BM in piano performance - I’m of the strong opinion that there’s a natural baseline and ceiling. Practice can only get you so far.

One of my high school piano friends went on to become a concert pianist. The difference between him and the rest of us was that music was everything for him - its what he did to relax, his social life, his hobby, his work, and his passion. There were, like, some months where music felt almost like that for me but for him it always did. I think there's no mysterious talent you have to have, just a psychological proble…

Of course. I agree with you. You will only make it in that field if there’s literally nothing else you can imagine doing.

But there’s still a starting point and ceiling in intrinsic ability.

I’m curious why you think there’s no difference in inherent abilities? Some people are more “naturally” skilled at some things than others, at a baseline. You can look to see examples of this everywhere.

That doesn’t negate the dedication/sweat/tears of people who have high skill, but many of those people also started several miles ahead.

Re: How can I keep from singing?

#20

Post by Barrin92 »

schwartzworld wrote: post #8

> who could “do music”... were born, I felt, gifted in a way that I was not Maybe it's true for some people but I generally think it isn't. The secret to being able to play an instrument is studying or practicing a little every day for 20 years. Some people get there faster but unless you have mobility issues, most people can learn enough of an instrument to have fun.

it's common with the arts in general. People often attribute to being gifted what are entirely learnable, physical skills. Singing in particular, it's astonishing how quickly you can teach someone to sing well even if they think they sound like a cat in a blender. Unless you have actual damage to your hearing or vocal chords, 99% of the people who think they're tone deaf just haven't learned to listen.

It's a great pedagogical experience just to show people how much of a difference deliberate practice makes.

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