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Saying goodbye to Agile

lewiscampbell.tech

121–130 of 271 posts

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#121
post #96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My evidence is that I was on a team that was not overly controlled by management and had clever people in it without any instant attitudes of rejection so they adapted to it. We produced updates bi-weekly and we had a huge backlog of stupid features which we were never going to get round to - we were able to get the important things done and it was one of the best feelings I've ever had about work. Since then I've be…

What is the chance that you've perfectly captured every aspect of the situation that led to success? Versus, what is the chance that you were lucky enough to be in situations where a multitude of factors, both appreciated and unappreciated, combined to lead to success? There are a million possible reasons for failure, but here is a very easy one: It doesn't matter how good you feel about the development process, if t…

You're right - there isn't one way to do things or one way that always works. There are issues that are outside a team's control, for example, that make it an impossible struggle. If you're rigidly forced to do something and cannot adapt then you're ... not really agile. But you have to understand why you're doing what you're doing and keep adjusting to see what works for you.

#1 IMO is that if the company you're in is non-agile in its general attitude, which is influenced by its own customers, then everything is geared against you.

That isn't to say that something like Kanban might not be usable or better than no plan at all but certainly scrum is not some universal solution.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite Agile-ism is when Agile is defined as “the process that works for the team”. If a team adopts agile (in any variation) and doesn’t like it, the Agile defenders will appear and argue that the team wasn’t actually doing agile. Agile is defined as the process that works, so if it didn’t work it couldn’t have been agile. If only you read The Agile Manifesto you would understand!

> My favorite Agile-ism is when Agile is defined as “the process that works for the team”. What compels you to believe it isn't? I mean, read the Agile Manifesto. All it does is basically define a set of values and principles. Things like "customer comes first" or "we welcome changes in requirements" or "software must be delivered frequently". What leads you to believe Agile implies a fixed set of precise, rigid rule…

It isnt but the fact it ultra vague and hand wavey means anybody can claim anything they do is agile including things that the exact opposite.

I actually think OP's criticisms apply mostly to Scrum. Scrum is well defined but its adherents' wont hear a critical word said about it. "You just werent doing it right" even when you were doing it precisely as described.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#123
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! "You're going to do agile .... and this list of features will be ready on September 20th." "Oh, feature no 32 is going to take months and we realised that users can just...." "No"

> "You're going to do agile .... and this list of features will be ready on September 20th." Well often the real world forces it upon you. As in customer will switch invoicing system on September 20th, integrations have to be ready by then. We have a lot of this, and hard cut-off is very frequent. If we ain't got all those deliverables implemented by then we will lose customers.

It is difficult to explain to a division director that they do not have sufficeint capacity (enough qualified programmers) to compete features within a set time budget. The old joke goes, "It takes one woman nine months to produce a baby. But: what if we just put nine women in a room for one month!?"

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#124
post #65

I've come to dread any formalization of Agile. Agile development is fine. I've built a 40+ engineering team with it. I can vouch for its effectiveness when applied to small, excellent teams. For reference, here's all the Agile you need, it's 4 sentences: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Working software over comprehensive documentation Customer collaboration over contract negotiation Responding t…

> […] when applied to small, excellent teams. Isn't that the biggest issue here, though? I think all of us can agree on the four sentences you wrote, but this only works in a team of professionals with shared goals (and alignment on them!), each individually competent and motivated. That is the case for a small founder team and maybe a while after that if you're lucky, but IME the more people join a company, the more…

> this only works in a team of professionals with shared goals (and alignment on them!), each individually competent and motivated.

Counterpoint: I learned a variant of agile in exactly this type of environment, long before any of this was publicized. Which is another point: agile wasn't something new, certainly not at the time of the manifesto, which was a compromise document. But not even before the manifesto. XP, arguably the first agile methodology, very clearly and deliberately stated that this is nothing new, just a distillation of things that experience has shown to work well.

Anyway, at my next job I introduced agile (small-a-agile) to a team that was anything but skilled. In fact, that team was where the leftovers of that particular development organization had been shunted (public company, very difficult to get rid of people). When I arrived, the team was as non-functional as the software it was responsible for. Well...

We rocked.

And all the team member improved dramatically in skill during my tenure there. Including myself.

We did not do Agile. No scrum, no standups, no sprints, none of that BS. We were agile. We focused on the technical practices. Test first. Red-green-commit. To trunk, obviously. Because if it's green why on earth would you not? Do the simplest thing that could possibly work. We had a design for a database and then never found a need to put it in...so we didn't.

It took a while for the other parts of the org to adapt to this. The answer to the common question "well, when can you deploy?" was always "now". Well after a quick look that the tests were, in fact, green. So they stopped asking. The tests were rarely not green, and when it did happened there was usually a quick "Oops, I'm sorry" and they went green again a couple of minutes later. Our ops team got bored very quickly. Put jar on box. Start. Forget about it.

What made the experience scientifically interesting is that we had a control group: the main team, much larger, working on the "important" software with all the "good" engineers started with a new project about the same time we did.

They did Agile. Capital-A. Scrum, sprints, standups.

They did not deliver and in fact the project had to be completely reset about two years in. My team-lead (we were co-lead, I did mostly internal/technical, he external/managerial) then got to take over that team as I left for Apple.

TFA, incidentally, is just about as good summary of misunderstandings of agile as I've seen.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#125
If we just put enough effort in and write the right spec/prompt/design then the programmers/llms/plug compatible coding units will produce the correct output first time!

Closing feedback loops. That’s the whole thing. WE Deming would have recognised agile (little a) as a PDCA system and approved.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#126

I've come to dread any formalization of Agile. Agile development is fine. I've built a 40+ engineering team with it. I can vouch for its effectiveness when applied to small, excellent teams. For reference, here's all the Agile you need, it's 4 sentences: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Working software over comprehensive documentation Customer collaboration over contract negotiation Responding t…

I can't count how many times I've seen "agile" projects that were just actually waterfall due to demands from stakeholders.

In most of the industry "Agile" is just "doing waterfall really quickly", and for some reason nobody understands you have to stand during your daily micromanagement meetings.

It's a farce.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#127

I personally have never worked in a team where Agile (the concept) has failed. But I've also seen it fail all around me. Especially when it's mandated without buy-in. Or when people just don't "get it". e.g. - 45 minute "standups" (!?) - PI "planning" that consisting of deadlines and glorified multiplayer MS Paint - Rigid adherence to ceremonies or processes that add zero value - Retros that focus on complaints and v…

If you don't care about definitions, then it would be good to not perpetuate using the word agile for your own set process. "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools"

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#128
post #13

There's an interesting phenomenon that Agile (capital A) has exposed me to, and once I saw it due to Agile I've seen parallels elsewhere. In that: if it fails, it is only considered evidence that you were not doing it enough . The solution can never be at fault, it's your execution, or your devotion to the process (in this case) that was faulty. It's also true for Cloud providers; that they're not suited for certain…

My favorite Agile-ism is when Agile is defined as “the process that works for the team”. If a team adopts agile (in any variation) and doesn’t like it, the Agile defenders will appear and argue that the team wasn’t actually doing agile. Agile is defined as the process that works, so if it didn’t work it couldn’t have been agile. If only you read The Agile Manifesto you would understand!

Another way of phrasing this though, is that it's in the team's power to determine process (or the lack thereof).

Regardless of success or failure you can say to what degree this is true, and to me this is really that only part of "agile" that is worth locking in.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#129

What does "writing specs" here actually mean? Every agile project I've ever worked on has had a design doc that laid out architecture, the basic shape of contracts, dependencies and so on. In fact, the agile artifacts(tickets, estimates, epics etc.) have always been downstream of a design doc source-of-truth. A project where all the work comes directly from tickets with no overarching, agreed-upon document on what th…

In an actually agile project or organization, the source of truth is the user of the software, because the developers periodically and whenever else necessary talk directly with the users and listen to what they have to say, and put that into writing.

In a fake agile project or org, the source of truth is a made up document written by the PO or PM and only remotely related to what the actual user says. Devs are kept away from the user by their higher ups, who seek job guarantees.

Re: Saying goodbye to Agile

#130
The problem is reality.

I've found that Finance, and the Tax Office of any government, rarely care about your Agile processes. They have their yearly cycles, and C-Level will always want to follow _those_ cycles.

Then, for those that have schoolgoing kids or work with people that have schoolgoing kids (aka: everyone everywhere): there is the school vacations cycles.

These too rarely care about your scrum rituals or PI planning. This means that your calendar is not a reflection of reality: July/August barely exists. Same goes for November or December. And at the same time December is full of actual deadlines due to end-of-year financial cycles.

And finally: the complexity of the work itself rarely lends itself to the linear timelines people expect.

Rarely have I met a Product-person, or a SCRUM person, that actually understands this. And can account for it in their Agile way of working.

End result: a continuous stream of disappointment. What fun times we live in.

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