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Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

steve-yegge.medium.com

121–130 of 183 posts

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#121
post #77

Does Yegge really think that building production software this way is a good idea? Let's assume that managing context well is a problem and that this kind of orchestration solves it. But I see another problem with agents: When designing a system or a component we have ideas that form invariants. Sometimes the invariant is big, like a certain grand architecture, and sometimes it's small, like the selection of a data s…

Some people care about the craft, most care about the output...

Hang in there, there will be a lot of slop to fix in contract work...

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#122

> I’ve been saying since last year that by the end of 2026, people will be mostly programming by talking to a face. There’s absolutely NO reason to type with the Mayor. You should be able to chat with them like a person. You’ll have a cartoon fox there onscreen, in costume, building and managing your production software, and showing you pretty status updates whenever you ask for one. This is the end state for IDEs. T…

This sounds like PaulHoule wrote it.

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Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#123
post #50

I tried Beads and it kept breaking in such frustratingly random ways that I just added a Linear MCP server and called it a day. That's really all you need.

I tried both Beads and Gas Town and had the same experience.

These fully vibe coded tools seem to have near zero QA. The fact that they ship with a `doctor` command that you regularly need to run (even if you didn’t change anything about your environment) tells you all you need to know.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#124
I feel Gastown is an attempt at answering: what if i push the multi-agent paradigm to its chaotic end?

But I think the point that Yegge doesn't address and that I had to discover for myself is: getting many agents working in parallel doing different things -- while cool and exciting (in an anthromorphic way) -- might not actually be solving the right problem. The bottleneck in development isn't workflow orchestration (what Gastown does) -- it's actually problem decomposition.

And Beads doesn't actually handle the decomposed problem well. I thought it did. But all it is is a task-graph system. Each bead is task, and agents can just pick up tasks to work on. That looks a lot like an SDE picking up a JIRA ticket right? But the problem is embedding just enough context in the task that the agent can do it right. But often it doesn't, so the agent has to guess missing context. And it often produces plausible code that is wrong.

Devolving a goal into the smaller slices is really where a lot of difficulty lies. You might say, oh, "I can just tell Claude to write Epics/Stories/Tasks, and it'll figure it out". Right? But without something grounding it like a spec, Claude doesn't do a good job. It won't know exactly how much context to provide to each independent agent.

What I have found useful is spec-driven development, especially of the opinionated variety that Kiro IDE offers. Kiro IDE is a middling Cursor, but an excellent spec generator -- in fact one of the best. It generates 3 specs at 3 levels of abstraction. It generates a Requirements doc in EARS/INCOSE (used at Rolls Royce and Boeing for reducing spec ambiguity), and then generate a Design doc (commonly done at FAANG), and... then generates a Task list, which cross-references the sections of the requirements/design.

This kind of spec hugely limits the degrees of freedom. The Requirements part of the spec actually captures intent, which is key. The Design part mocks interfaces, embeds glossaries, and also embeds PBTs (property-based tests using Hypothesis -- maybe eventually Hegel?) as gating mechanisms to check invariants. The Task list is what Beads is supposed to do -- but Beads can't do a good job because it doesn't have the other two specs.

I've deployed 4 products now using Kiro spec-driven dev (+ Simon Willison's tip "do red/green tdd") and they're running in prod and so far so good. They're pressure-tested using real data.

Spec-driven development isn't perfect but I feel its aim is the correct one -- to capture intentions, to reduce the degrees of freedom, and to constrain agents toward correctness. I tried using Claude Code's /plan mode but it's nowhere as rigorous, and there's still spec drift in the generated code. It doesn't pin down the problem sufficiently.

Gastown/Beads are solutions for workflow orchestration problem (which is exciting for tech bros), but at its core, it's not the most important problem. Problem decomposition is.

Otherwise you're just solving the wrong problem, fast.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#125
i've experimented quite a lot with multi agent setups and orchestrations.

In the end, it didn't feel worth it mostly because of high token overhead (inter agent communications, agents re reading same code, etc...) and synchronization / cooperation issues (who should do what).

What actually works for me and provides good results: multi step workflows with clearly defined steps and strong guidance for the agent.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same institution I’d send Steve today. The sanatorium from American Horror Story Asylum comes to mind. Dominique, nique, nique…

we can do better than "that man is crazy". Why not pull up a line in his OPENLY AVAILABLE CODE BASE and mock that instead?

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Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#127
post #50

I tried Beads and it kept breaking in such frustratingly random ways that I just added a Linear MCP server and called it a day. That's really all you need.

I've been using Beads for 5 different projects, and Beads and/or Dolt failures have been a regular thing. It's own "doctor" feature is sort of disturbing, in that it (1) tells me that my Beads setups are always at least a little bit broken, but (2) can never fix all of the issues. Hopefully the 1.0 designation means that Steve is out of "throw shit at the wall" mode. Beads is fine as a replacement for Markdown files,…

Agreed. I kinda concluded that the expected `doctor` usage is to have an agent run it for you and then they can try to figure it out when `doctor` can’t fix the issues.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#128
post #121
post #77

Does Yegge really think that building production software this way is a good idea? Let's assume that managing context well is a problem and that this kind of orchestration solves it. But I see another problem with agents: When designing a system or a component we have ideas that form invariants. Sometimes the invariant is big, like a certain grand architecture, and sometimes it's small, like the selection of a data s…

Some people care about the craft, most care about the output... Hang in there, there will be a lot of slop to fix in contract work...

[dead]

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#129
post #5

Serious question - there's a lot of fluff talking about Gas Town, but has Gas Town shipping something in public that can be evaluated without all of this surrounding hype and blogposting? At this point it should be clear that Gas Town has done something we can evaluate the value of.

>At this point it should be clear that Gas Town has done something we can evaluate the value of.

I see this sentiment often, repeated a couple times in here, but I don't understand why on earth that would be the case. Gas Town was released a little over three months ago. It's an ongoing open-source experiment at the bleeding edge of vendor-agnostic multi-agent orchestration.

I was using gastown for fire-and-forget prototyping of larger projects. It was flaky and scorches tokens but it was able to get larger prototypes done than I could with a single instance of my daily river (claude) alone.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#130
post #5

Serious question - there's a lot of fluff talking about Gas Town, but has Gas Town shipping something in public that can be evaluated without all of this surrounding hype and blogposting? At this point it should be clear that Gas Town has done something we can evaluate the value of.

you can always fire it up yourself and see what its all about. in my experience it generates a lot of code very quickly, that code is probably only ever supposed to be LLM maintained, not by people.

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