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Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

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Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#181

Post by duncans »

psychotik wrote: post #47
sriramk wrote: post #35

This is a stunning development and most of MSFT is probably in shock right now. It's hard to overstate the scope and influence Sinofsky had at MSFT. This was a man widely expected to be the next CEO and he had impact way outside his organization (the 'Sinofsky-ization of teams'). Also, his stock was rising inside MSFT (when you stay inside the company long enough, you can sense which executives are in trouble and whi…

He was always polarizing and that his stock was rising is equally contentious, IMO. Windows 8 was late, Surface seems to be underwhelming and his inability to be a real team player are all likely factors here, as is his rumored disagreement with Ballmer (though I had Ballmer on the losing end of that one). You're right that this will change Microsoft at a deep level, but I think odds are good that it's a change for t…

Don't forget that Sinofsky was that guy that convinced BillG that the web/internet was the way forward rather than the closed proprietary AOL-like MSN of the time with his "Cornell is WIRED!" email/memo: http://www.cornell.edu/about/wired/

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#183

Post by dlitz »

ygra wrote: post #159
zanny wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 7 and 8. 9 and 10 are still strutting around non-standard implementations of half of everything require custom code work-arounds. They still don't have full html5 / css3 support either.

How do you fully support a mostly still-moving spec? Also what large points are missing now in IE 10 except for WebGL?

Why do you only ask about "large points"? If you implement 'most of CSS, except for minute details', then you haven't implemented CSS, and web developers suffer because they have to add UA-specific hacks for your implementation.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#184

Post by zizee »

cookingrobot wrote: post #173
zizee wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Longhorn was the internal codename for Vista. I think that you are thinking of Windows 7 being rushed, focused, and pragmatic fix to the fiasco that was Vista. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista From the first paragraph of the article: Prior to its announcement on July 22, 2005, Windows Vista was known by its codename "Longhorn" edit: ref to wikipedia edit2: suggestion to parent.

Longhorn wasn't the codename for Vista - that was a lie we told to cover the truth :) Longhorn was a massively ambitious upgrade to Windows XP that had a whole new relational DB file system (WinFS), managed memory graphics stack comparable to Flash (Avalon), and abstracted network layer (Indigo). The project didn't converge. In late 2004 we cancelled the project and scrapped all the code we'd written since 2001. We f…

Fair enough, if you have inside knowledge I'm happy to be corrected.

On a side note: Do you think the Wikipedia article is accurate?

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#185

Post by zizee »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #179
zizee wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Longhorn was the internal codename for Vista. I think that you are thinking of Windows 7 being rushed, focused, and pragmatic fix to the fiasco that was Vista. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista From the first paragraph of the article: Prior to its announcement on July 22, 2005, Windows Vista was known by its codename "Longhorn" edit: ref to wikipedia edit2: suggestion to parent.

> Windows Longhorn was the internal codename for Vista That's a matter of perspective and spin. Vista is what was salvaged from Longhorn. The plans for Longhorn were much more ambitious. > I think that you are thinking of Windows 7 being rushed, focused, and pragmatic fix to the fiasco that was Vista. I doubt it, and it seems that cookingrobot knows what he's talking about here a lot more than you do. Windows 7 was t…

Vista is what was salvaged from Longhorn.

That is very true. Re-reading cookingrobot's original comment I can know see that I misinterpreted his comment. I was thrown by the part where he wrote "don't remember Longhorn?" which made me think he was under the impression that Longhorn was a version of Windows released to consumers.

it seems that cookingrobot knows what he's talking about here a lot more than you do

This seems a bit rude? I can't quite put my finger on the reason why as it is a true statement - cookingrobot does sound like he knows the truth of the matter.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#186

Post by cnkt »

DufusM wrote: post #121
fieldforceapp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for pointing us to that link. I was surprised & pleased to learn that two women were promoted as a result of Sinofsky's departure: Julie Larson-Green and Tami Reller. Good for them, and all of us who enjoy seeing a little more gender balance. Any MSFT'ers here who can comment on their backgrounds?

Julie Larson-Green brought the Ribbon interface to Office and then to other parts of Windows. Her ability to bring change to something as stable as the Office UI and the Windows Explorer UI was seen as a good thing.

Jensen harris is the man who brought ribbon to office.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#187

Post by cookingrobot »

zizee wrote: post #185
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows Longhorn was the internal codename for Vista That's a matter of perspective and spin. Vista is what was salvaged from Longhorn. The plans for Longhorn were much more ambitious. > I think that you are thinking of Windows 7 being rushed, focused, and pragmatic fix to the fiasco that was Vista. I doubt it, and it seems that cookingrobot knows what he's talking about here a lot more than you do. Windows 7 was t…

Vista is what was salvaged from Longhorn. That is very true. Re-reading cookingrobot's original comment I can know see that I misinterpreted his comment. I was thrown by the part where he wrote "don't remember Longhorn?" which made me think he was under the impression that Longhorn was a version of Windows released to consumers. it seems that cookingrobot knows what he's talking about here a lot more than you do This…

Hey no worries - it's basically just war stories now. :) You're right that publicly MS said Longhorn was the codename for Vista, even though that's kind of stretching the truth.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#188

Post by Already__Taken »

duncans wrote: post #181
psychotik wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was always polarizing and that his stock was rising is equally contentious, IMO. Windows 8 was late, Surface seems to be underwhelming and his inability to be a real team player are all likely factors here, as is his rumored disagreement with Ballmer (though I had Ballmer on the losing end of that one). You're right that this will change Microsoft at a deep level, but I think odds are good that it's a change for t…

Don't forget that Sinofsky was that guy that convinced BillG that the web/internet was the way forward rather than the closed proprietary AOL-like MSN of the time with his "Cornell is WIRED!" email/memo: http://www.cornell.edu/about/wired/

It must take a pretty bold conviction to think you are right and Bill Gates is wrong. I could trust how saying he's hard to work under would be legitimate.

Could be hard for someone like that to take advice from engineers below him who have half or less the experience.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#189

Post by ThomPete »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #166
colmvp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as a Mac only guy, I don't see how Surface is thought to be underwhelming. I think the tablet gestures they have, especially using the edges, are steps beyond the iPad and iOS and I expect Apple to copy them at some point in time. And then the actual interface is pretty nice as well: distinct, clean, beautiful. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple riffing on them.

I think the gestures are cool, and in a world where everyone was really into "neat" interfaces it'd be the way to go. They score particularly high on efficiency. But designers tend to drastically underestimate discoverabity, particularly discoverabity by novice users. Many entire software companies exist purely because the market leader's product lacks discoverabity of a feature. Twitter, in some ways, exists because…

That is all solved by the fact that it's a touch based device.

It's that hardware feature that stands for 95% of the usability of the device.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#190

Post by anonymfus »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #166
colmvp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as a Mac only guy, I don't see how Surface is thought to be underwhelming. I think the tablet gestures they have, especially using the edges, are steps beyond the iPad and iOS and I expect Apple to copy them at some point in time. And then the actual interface is pretty nice as well: distinct, clean, beautiful. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple riffing on them.

I think the gestures are cool, and in a world where everyone was really into "neat" interfaces it'd be the way to go. They score particularly high on efficiency. But designers tend to drastically underestimate discoverabity, particularly discoverabity by novice users. Many entire software companies exist purely because the market leader's product lacks discoverabity of a feature. Twitter, in some ways, exists because…

I think your vision is wrong because you criticize traditional idea of hiding power features and exposition of basic, but Microsoft did opposite. They exposed power features (see Ribbon) and hid basic. Every user will learn gestures because this is the only way to call Start screen with mouse and without it there is nothing to do. Beginners will search internet with "How to shutdown Windows 8" and will find about settings charm this way. Many will hate Windows 8 but in the end everybody will learn.
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