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The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

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Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#21

Post by teaearlgraycold »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #11
alterom wrote: post #2

It's ridiculous that this is even being discussed. The people proposing the bill must have zero understanding of how a 3D printer works. It makes as much sense as requiring saw manufacturers to implement protections that restrict what can be cut out with a saw. Or pen manufacturers being required to enforce copyright. Any form of this bill will 100% fail to attain its stated objective, while having horrendous not-qui…

> Any form of this bill will 100% fail to attain its stated objective, while having horrendous not-quite-unintended consequences. California gun laws in a nutshell.

California laws in a nutshell.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#23

Post by cultofmetatron »

subhobroto wrote: post #8

I don't understand the problem solving mindset that thinks banning guns would solve the problem of a person intent on causing harm. In the U.K., where I feel guns are only showpieces (do even cops have them?), stabbing is a known problem. In India, where ammo is way more expensive than machetes and knives, people are literally murdered with them. The only argument I can understand, when it comes to banning guns, is t…

guns democratize mass murder. With a gun, I can kill a bunch of people before police can stop me. A knife? At best I can kill one or two in a public place before people run away and eventually a different group is going to stop me pretty quickly.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#24

Post by Aspos »

jmyeet wrote: post #17

I'm surprised the EFF didn't address the issue that traditional printer manufacturers already comply with law enforcement, specifically that a fingerprint of yellow tracking dots [1] are printed and printers will often refuse to or fail to copy images of money. My point is there's already precedent for printers cooperating with authorities so one can see this as simply an extension to 3D printer manufacturers. I susp…

I believe EFF did address the yellow dots but got nowhere. Yellow dot problem is decades old.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#25

Post by Cider9986 »

jmyeet wrote: post #17

I'm surprised the EFF didn't address the issue that traditional printer manufacturers already comply with law enforcement, specifically that a fingerprint of yellow tracking dots [1] are printed and printers will often refuse to or fail to copy images of money. My point is there's already precedent for printers cooperating with authorities so one can see this as simply an extension to 3D printer manufacturers. I susp…

Open source is core to 3d printing. I have never heard of an open source traditional printer. That is the difference. This is an attempt to lock down open source.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#26

Post by subhobroto »

convolvatron wrote: post #4
asdff wrote: post #3

Why don't these bills go after ammo or gunpowder access? Seems as long as you have access to a cylinder, and ammunition, you can make a gun.

I don't know the situation with the actual charge, but if you can make a gun, you can certainly make ammunition.

> if you can make a gun, you can certainly make ammunition

theoretically true but having re-sleeved ammunition, the chances of injury is tremendously different. That said, a lot of people in California are having to resort to re-sleeving ammunition, not out of choice but because for all practical purposes, California has made buying ammunition impossible.

While you can crawl and bite your way through getting a horribly castrated gun in California, the real struggle begins buying affordable ammunition.

For regular people to own a gun that you can actually use in California, (not LEOs or certain other people), you either needed to have inherited them or bought them from the cartels. Otherwise you own something of limited use that insanely expensive to operate.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#27

Post by Retr0id »

dlev_pika wrote: post #20

AFAIK If I try to scan a dollar bill, both the hardware and the software won’t let me be. How is this different? Edit: I appreciate the responses! Thank you

One practical difference is that you can make dollar bill detection relatively robust. Sure, you could cut it into 4 pieces and scan them separately, but you'd still get stuck when it comes time to print them. There are only finitely many dollar bill shapes. But there are infinitely many plausible gun components, and infinitely more ways to divide them into sub-assemblies.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#28

Post by EvanAnderson »

dlev_pika wrote: post #20

AFAIK If I try to scan a dollar bill, both the hardware and the software won’t let me be. How is this different? Edit: I appreciate the responses! Thank you

US currency has machine-detectable identifying markings incorporated in the design. "Ghost gun" parts do not.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#29

Post by subhobroto »

dlev_pika wrote: post #20

AFAIK If I try to scan a dollar bill, both the hardware and the software won’t let me be. How is this different? Edit: I appreciate the responses! Thank you

You cannot defend yourself from a hungry coyote or surprised mountain lion with a dollar bill but you can certainly protect yourself or your child from one with a gun
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