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I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

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Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#41

Post by mindslight »

tptacek wrote: post #34
kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

Wait, is it your data? If you drive your car in front of a Ring camera on my house (I don't have a Ring camera don't @ me), is it your claim that you own the data on that camera?

"Your data" isn't really a well defined term, right?

But yes, data that can be used to track my movements in my vehicle is certainly a type of personally identifiable information. I'd argue there should be some exemptions for individuals operating on a small scale, which I believe the CCPA has (and if we actually got a US GDPR, that it should have). But also that kind of exception shouldn't apply to a camera jointly operated by and backhauling to Ring.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#42

Post by [deleted] »

ldoughty wrote: post #24
fudgy73 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...

But the data collected is property of the government and flock is not allowed to use that data for additional business gain (according to their statements)... So they can't sell the fact that you're at Target at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday to anybody... Nor build profiles to sell to advertisers... And if that's the case that's very similar to cloud storage vendors. If I access hacker news, and the record of my visit is sto…

[deleted]

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#43

Post by empathy_m »

I noticed that the company is glossed as "Flock" and not "Flock Safety (YC S17)" in posts like this and last week's "US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47689237.

Did YC house style change a while back to drop the "(YC xxx)" annotation since so many popular firms particpate / or because it's well known?

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#44

Post by kstrauser »

kube-system wrote: post #32
kstrauser wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooh. I like this.

Why? The response is predictable. No company is going to give you a customer list.

I wouldn't be so sure. In this specific case, they told me to ask their customers to comply with my CCPA rights. Without that information, it's impossible for me to exercise those rights. IANAL, but that sounds like a pursuable path.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#45

Post by alt227 »

ranger_danger wrote: post #4

To me this sounds like the equivalent of visiting a website that sells your data, and then asking AWS to delete your personal data when it actually belongs to a customer of theirs and only resides within their private storage. Would you ask your local ISP to delete data they provided to Tinder like your IP address? That doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I have asked multiple companies to destroy my data under GDPR. Its quite common in Europe.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#46

Post by MengerSponge »

nekusar wrote: post #20

The only opt-out the citizenry has is with any of the following: 2x4 rebar spraypaint spray foam battery powered metal cutter And bash those pieces of shit to chunks or completely ruin the lens and solar. Republican community? They love corporate surveillance. Democrat community? They too love corporate surveillance. There is no "Peoples' Party" that rejects this garbage.

https://www.techspot.com/news/108045-lidar-great-cars-but-ca...

It would be a pity if someone made dense point clouds of these devices.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#47

Post by mikey_p »

empathy_m wrote: post #43

I noticed that the company is glossed as "Flock" and not "Flock Safety (YC S17)" in posts like this and last week's "US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47689237 . Did YC house style change a while back to drop the "(YC xxx)" annotation since so many popular firms particpate / or because it's well known?

Who know, maybe they're trying to distance themselves from the privacy disaster, but I doubt anyone at YC or HN is smart enough to read the room on Flock.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#48

Post by inetknght »

ldoughty wrote: post #12
barelysapient wrote: post #3

If that's a valid excuse than the CCPA isn't worth the paper its written on.

I would argue that the request was invalid in the first place. If I see a flash on a speed camera operated by a business on behalf of a police department, your argument states I should be able to use CCPA to force the business to delete my picture and the record of me speeding If I can get the request to them before the police can file with the court and request that data as evidence. The data belongs to the governme…

> If I see a flash on a speed camera operated by a business on behalf of a police department, your argument states I should be able to use CCPA to force the business to delete my picture and the record of me speeding If I can get the request to them before the police can file with the court and request that data as evidence.

Sounds reasonable to me. If the police want to put up a camera, then the police should put up a camera.

Offloading their legal responsibilities to a third party company is shitty.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#49

Post by kube-system »

I don't think they need your permission to use ALPR on your publicly displayed license plate.

> (2) (A) “Personal information” does not include publicly available information [...]

> (B) (i) For purposes of this paragraph, “publicly available” means any of the following:

> (I) Information that is lawfully made available from federal, state, or local government records.

> (II) Information that a business has a reasonable basis to believe is lawfully made available to the general public by the consumer

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#50

Post by snowwrestler »

kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

It’s not clear to me that it is actually your data. If I take a picture of you in a public place, I own the picture, not you.

But maybe I am unclear on how Flock works.

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