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For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

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Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#41

Post by tokai »

contubernio wrote: post #29
mchusma wrote: post #3

I do think the Iran crisis should continue to push countries towards nuclear + solar. Like Ukraine helped shift some in Europe back to supporting nuclear after foolishly shutting down reactors.

The wars in Ukraine and irán have also highlighted what a horrendous insecurity nuclear power plants are. A direct missile attack on one could be catastrophic. The idea that such will never happen is as silly as the idea that there will never be an accident or a tsunami. But passive safety won't stop a missile.

But still after +4 years of war, with extensive targeting of Ukrainian civilians, the nuclear power plants stand while the plants using gas etc. are bombed daily. They are simply too dangerous of a target. Russia enjoys using Zaporizhzhia power plant for some brinkmanship once in a while, but they are well aware of the risk and everything has turned out fine so far.

If Ukraine didn't have nuclear energy they would be blacked out now.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#42

Post by shimman »

mchusma wrote: post #3

I do think the Iran crisis should continue to push countries towards nuclear + solar. Like Ukraine helped shift some in Europe back to supporting nuclear after foolishly shutting down reactors.

This administration has killed dozens of solar + wind projects. Don't get your hopes up, the US is run by people that only want to profit off of natural gas and nothing else matters.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#43

Post by KaiserPro »

burningChrome wrote: post #34
RealityVoid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am a big fan of nuclear, I think the issue of land usage for solar is overblown. We use a lot of land for far less useful things. In the end, anything that helps us burn less fossil fuels, I am happy with.

You're also taking away farmland that could be used to produce all kinds of things. Most of the prime solar areas are the same prime areas for agriculture. By creating massive solar farms, you're at the same time, reducing acreage that could be used for range animals and other agriculture: Modeling by the American Farmland Trust (AFT) finds that 83% of projected solar development will be on agricultural land, of whic…

Agricultural land in large parts of the US is going through a massive degradation cycle. We are heading for dustbowl 2.0 especially now that a bunch of the weird land universities have been shut down. In short its being used wrong and left empty too long, meaning the top soil is blowing away. Not to mention the land drains stopping proper soaking leading to flash flooding and runoff events.

Depending on how the panels are put in place, the land and soil quality will increase significantly because its reverting to fallow and long rooted stabilising plants will have 25 years to build up the biome again. Converting land back to farming is pretty quick.

I understand the point your making, and I do agree with the end of life cycle issues. THere is going to be a lot of lead leaching into water courses if not dealt with properly.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#44

Post by KaiserPro »

epistasis wrote: post #15
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #9

I wonder how good it could be if the governments offered the exact same amount of subsidies to renewable energy they offer to coal and petroleum, including indirect subsidies like distribution infrastructure etc.

Right now renewables and storage are cheaper than most new fossil fuel types of generation. The cheapest new fossil fuel generation, gas, is bottlenecked by limited capacity to build new turbines currently. So if you look at new resources being added to the grid, it's all solar, wind, storage, and a tiny bit of new fossil gas generation. The biggest impediment to more renewables is no longer cost, it's politics and r…

> is bottlenecked by limited capacity to build new turbines currently.

its bottlenecked by price. The reason why the UK's electricity is so fucking expensive is because its pegged to international gas prices

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#45

Post by abetusk »

shimman wrote: post #42
mchusma wrote: post #3

I do think the Iran crisis should continue to push countries towards nuclear + solar. Like Ukraine helped shift some in Europe back to supporting nuclear after foolishly shutting down reactors.

This administration has killed dozens of solar + wind projects. Don't get your hopes up, the US is run by people that only want to profit off of natural gas and nothing else matters.

The economics of solar will bulldoze past any need for subsidies from the government.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#46

Post by lynx97 »

mchusma wrote: post #3

I do think the Iran crisis should continue to push countries towards nuclear + solar. Like Ukraine helped shift some in Europe back to supporting nuclear after foolishly shutting down reactors.

> foolishly shutting down reactors.

Ahem, have I missed something? Do you know more then the rest of us? I mean, has the nuclear waste problem actually been solved?

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#47

Post by lithos »

nradov wrote: post #14
pstuart wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A promise of Nuclear SMRs (Small Modular Reactors) is that they could be dropped into existing coal fired power plants and leverage the existing power generation equipment. Apparently they are failing to attain traction because despite the promise of lower cost reactors due to them no longer being bespoke, their LCOE cannot compete with renewables. I'd argue that we should subsidize those and help make them happen NO…

The problem with small nuclear reactors is that costs don't scale down linearly with size or power output. Like you still need about the same number of armed security guards to protect the site. They might be a good option for remote sites off the grid where physical security isn't a concern.

They are scaled for politics.

Tell someone over 60 or 70 that Poland has better modular reactors than us, and they'll suddenly care.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#48

Post by cmrdporcupine »

gpm wrote: post #33
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flush of $$ to North American oil companies will unfortunately lead to a pile of investment in more oil and gas exploration, refining, and transport. Seeing that already here in Canada. All parties (except one) seem united in their newfound aspiration to just mine and ship more of the stuff. Talking about transition is politically toxic here right now.

The shift in Canada predates the oil crisis the US just created... it dates back to at least the election a year ago. I strongly suspect it was primarily created by the US threatening to annex us via "economic force" and thus creating a need to prioritize our short term economic strength over longer term charity things like climate change.

I think we absolutely agree and in fact it goes back much further than that. There's a well funded "opposition" in Alberta that sees any constraints on the energy sector as aggressive "imperialism" from central Canadian "elites", and they've cultivated a grievance politics so deep on this subject that they've convinced people in Alberta of some honestly pretty outlandish things. And yes, a lot of this is directly funded from the US.

I also think that there's a bigger force at work which is that despite actually being only 2nd or 3rd in Canada's GDP by percentage, energy sector is basically the majority of what's on the TSX and a key driver in equity growth in Canada. And so, the old maxim applies in regards to climate change and Canadians generally: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

I'm from Alberta originally and talking to extended family etc about this topic is just painful. Not officially climate change denying, but in practice fully actually

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#49

Post by cmrdporcupine »

downrightmike wrote: post #39
gpm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shift in Canada predates the oil crisis the US just created... it dates back to at least the election a year ago. I strongly suspect it was primarily created by the US threatening to annex us via "economic force" and thus creating a need to prioritize our short term economic strength over longer term charity things like climate change.

Plus if Canada warms up, hey win win

If you like forest fires, permafrost collapse, and drought, sure.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#50

Post by gpm »

downrightmike wrote: post #39
gpm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shift in Canada predates the oil crisis the US just created... it dates back to at least the election a year ago. I strongly suspect it was primarily created by the US threatening to annex us via "economic force" and thus creating a need to prioritize our short term economic strength over longer term charity things like climate change.

Plus if Canada warms up, hey win win

This war has definitely had massive positive implications for the financial future of the north west passage...

But Canada has a pretty great climate apart from a bit of snow, I wouldn't take warmer at the cost of a small risk of desertification, forest fires, hurricanes, etc. Climate change is unfortunately not just in the nice and warm direction.

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