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Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

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Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#41

Post by jmward01 »

I always opt out if given the option and if not given the option I click x and close the site. However, unfortunately, I have assumed that they are already tracking me when the pop-up hits. This kinda confirms that is true.

We have 'get tough on X, Y, Z' things that don't impact me at all. You can dial 911 if someone assaults you in the US, but I don't know of a single resource to get law enforcement involved when I am digitally assaulted. I think that is a big part of the problem here. Nobody is actually taking the call to enforce this stuff.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#42

Post by nostrademons »

tlibert wrote: post #9

Hi, I'm Dr Tim Libert, founder of webXray who did this audit. Happy to answer questions from YC'ers. [Note, stepping away for some mental health exercise, stressful day!] I also want to push back on Google telling the press our California Privacy Audit is "is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how [Google's] products work". I'm the former head of Cookie Compliance at Google and I have the federal court filing…

The GPC spec does not say "no cookies will be set" [1], and does not mention cookies at all. It merely provides a way for the user to indicate their preference that their information not be shared or tracked. The spec even says:

> In the absence of regulatory, legal, or other requirements, websites can interpret an expressed Global Privacy Control preference as they find most appropriate for the given person, particularly as considered in light of the person's privacy expectations, context, and cultural circumstances.

The CCPA [2] also never explicitly mentions cookies or forbids them from being set. The relevant passages about opting out on the sale of personal information are:

> a) A business shall provide two or more designated methods for submitting requests to opt-out, including an interactive form accessible via a clear and conspicuous link titled “Do Not Sell My Personal Information,” on the business’s website or mobile application. Other acceptable methods for submitting these requests include, but are not limited to, a toll-free phone number, a designated email address, a form submitted in person, a form submitted through the mail, and user-enabled global privacy controls, such as a browser plug-in or privacy setting, device setting, or other mechanism, that communicate or signal the consumer’s choice to opt-out of the sale of their personal information

How would you respond to their claim that you are fundamentally misunderstanding GPC, and that the spec and the law do not mean you never set cookies, they mean that you must honor the preferences expressed by the header in backend processes that involve tracking or sale of personal information?

[1] https://w3c.github.io/gpc/

[2] https://www.oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/privacy/oa...?

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#43

Post by tlibert »

david_d8912 wrote: post #33

Now it'll be interesting to see if the AI companies do the same

Still waiting on a public recognition from a company I helped quietly fix a serious problem. I'm generally on the side of helping people fix, revealing what's going on publicly isn't our first preference.

(And to the person who resolved the issue with the Major AI Company - would it really hurt to give a shout-out for the help we gave you?)

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#45

Post by tlibert »

measurablefunc wrote: post #37

Wait until you folks learn about the quantum panopticon. It sounds fake but governments everywhere are recording as much encrypted data as possible in hopes of decrypting it in the future w/ quantum computers: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11023-025-09723-2

Yes, only true solutions are network layer severing.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#46

Post by rolph »

tlibert wrote: post #20
rolph wrote: post #5

they have no fear of the current financial incentives, there has to a punitive quantity involved, and the mentality of any regulators has to catch up with present day. fines that amount to a daily expenditure account, do nothing. fines have to have potential to do real damage to, or destroy noncompliants, if there is going to be any deterrent. contempt, is obvious, the chance of jail should exist in actuality, rather…

If you read the report this is why I say network traffic with a Sec-GPC: 1 (GPC opt-out) should return a 451 automatically instead of a cookie, and how the Meta Pixel code can wrap a GPC conditional around execution. That's why they are terrified - fines don't matter, code does.

yes that seems to be workable, but then its thier code, and house techs you have to preempt. the problem seems to be one of, effectively compelling a change of code and heuristics.

im wondering what would be more effective.

1] desist or existentially threatening fines, or indentureship will occur.

2] you have a problem with code maintainence, we will take code maintainence into receivership, until you have demonstrated that you can maintain code in a legal framework.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#47

Post by sigbottle »

jmward01 wrote: post #41

I always opt out if given the option and if not given the option I click x and close the site. However, unfortunately, I have assumed that they are already tracking me when the pop-up hits. This kinda confirms that is true. We have 'get tough on X, Y, Z' things that don't impact me at all. You can dial 911 if someone assaults you in the US, but I don't know of a single resource to get law enforcement involved when I…

Forget the "Humans must always be in the loop for accountability" argument against AI, we already don't have such checks today!

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#48

Post by tlibert »

jmward01 wrote: post #41

I always opt out if given the option and if not given the option I click x and close the site. However, unfortunately, I have assumed that they are already tracking me when the pop-up hits. This kinda confirms that is true. We have 'get tough on X, Y, Z' things that don't impact me at all. You can dial 911 if someone assaults you in the US, but I don't know of a single resource to get law enforcement involved when I…

The only reason I ever click reject is to open the devtools and count the ads cookies still set. I managed to turn that hobby into https://webxray.ai as a business.

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#49

Post by wnevets »

rolph wrote: post #5

they have no fear of the current financial incentives, there has to a punitive quantity involved, and the mentality of any regulators has to catch up with present day. fines that amount to a daily expenditure account, do nothing. fines have to have potential to do real damage to, or destroy noncompliants, if there is going to be any deterrent. contempt, is obvious, the chance of jail should exist in actuality, rather…

> fines that amount to a daily expenditure account, do nothing.

Even those relatively small fines rarely get paid. Companies can tie up the judgements in the courts for years without having to pay a single cent. [1]

> The Data Protection Commission (DPC) is owed more than €4 billion in fines that have not been collected or are subject to legal challenge. The DPC hit companies – including firms in Big Tech – with more than €530 million in fines last year. However, just €125,000 of that has been collected so far, according to data released under FOI laws. Over the past six years, the commission has levied an incredible €4.04 billion in fines, mostly on multinational technology companies. However, of that total, €4.02 billion remains uncollected and just €20 million has been paid in fines so far. In 2024, €652 million worth of fines was levied, of which €582,500 has been paid.

[1] https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2026/01/12/data-protecti...

Re: Google, Microsoft, Meta All Tracking You Even When You Opt Out

#50

Post by shevy-java »

These greedy corporations spy on us. Our data is valueable to them.

When someone spies on you, it means they do not trust you. That means we should not trust them either.

It's not just merely these giant corporations though. I think the whole business model is broken, if they need to spy on people in order to milk out more profit. One big glaring weakness is ... the browser. I think we need to find a solution here. Chrome is a problem. Chromium can not offset this problem; Google still makes most decisions. (You can adapt, but it is a constants wear-and-tear race to do so, Google has more resources.)

I used to think that Ladybird could provide an alternative; then I was banned from the project site, allegedly for "trolling" and "insulting". I disagree with that but there is no real regulation to protest. This unfortunately exemplifies a problem how the modern www became too restrictive in general and alternatives stumble on their own "morality", before they even produced a real competitor here. (I still think there should be competitors to Google, so it is good that Ladybird exists; I am just no longer attached in any way as to whether they succeed or not, due to the ban.)

What we need is a real global movement. Everywhere. The whole www model has to change. It should not be controllable by private entities or state agencies - those who watch the age verification process already know what's coming next.

Got your ID ready to access information yet, bud?

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