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The secrets of the Shinkansen

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Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#51

Post by callmeal »

ta8903 wrote: post #20
Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

>the country is long and narrow This is a little counterintuitive but it does make a difference. I recently moved from a coastal city (that is very linear) to a landlocked city spread evenly in all directions. I had naively assumed the new city would be easier to get around in, since on average places would be closer to you. But the first city has decent commuter rail, which meant I could get to the other end of the…

>I'm sure you can have good public transit in "round" cities too, but it is certainly more difficult to plan.

You don't have to be "sure", take a look at London which is a "round" city with excellent public transit.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#52

Post by CalRobert »

Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

Japanese rail companies are allowed to buy land, then build infrastructure, then enjoy the increased value of said land. American rail is hobbled by the extraction of increased land values by those who already own land by the stations. Of course, freeways are similar, but people don’t mind roads losing money.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#53

Post by pm215 »

sparkie wrote: post #46
razorbeamz wrote: post #8

These mixed companies can be very confusing to tourists especially. I'm always answering questions from tourists who are confused why they can't buy a ticket to where they want to go.

If you intend to do a fair amount of travelling and your stay is Probably not worth it if you're only visiting one city as the pass is quite expensive. There are regional tourist passes though. [1]: https://japanrailpass.net/en/

Unfortunately the 70% price rise on the JR pass back in 2023 made it much less likely to be economic for most people compared to just buying tickets as you go, even for trips that visit more than one city. Last time I was there I did a loop up from Tokyo to Hokkaido and back by rail, and it was still cheaper to buy individual tickets. (There are obviously still some itineraries where it works out cheaper, but it's much less of an "obviously good idea for most people" than it was back before 2023.)

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#55

Post by CalRobert »

DeathArrow wrote: post #33
radicalbyte wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands is a similar shape to the continental contiguous United States yet we have an excellent public transport system. Very good trains and every population has awesome cycling infrastructure. The US could have all of this and more in their populated areas. They're the richest country in the world. Why is the infrastructure so neglected? It's clearly a choice.

Isn't Netherlands trying to deter from car use by laws and taxes and at the same time funneling public money into railroads and bike infrastructure? >The US could have all of this and more in their populated areas. Probably people in US have other priorities and that means there are other public policies.

I dunno, centre right national governments in recent years have been pretty car friendly. Driving can be cheaper for family outings. For two adults and two teens to go from Utrecht to Amsterdam and back (26 minutes each way) is €48 (with discount if you buy a flex pass monthly) or €80 without a discount. Suddenly driving is pretty competitive

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#56

Post by razorbeamz »

vidarh wrote: post #40
razorbeamz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists are often buying paper tickets. There's no way for a foreign Android phone to use a digital Suica, so people with Android are stuck with a physical card or paper tickets, and there's a lot of outdated information online that the physical cards are in low supply (They were last year but this year they're not).

When we visited Tokyo last year, what stopped us from even trying was the online information we came across was unclear and suggested we could only get the physical cards at the airport and at some tourist office, and we forgot to look for it at the airport... I don't know if that is correct or not, but compare Oyster in London which is advertised at practically every corner store, so even if you get into town not kn…

The card mentioned in the guides you read is the "Welcome Suica" that's only for tourists.

You can get a normal Suica just about anywhere.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#57

Post by razorbeamz »

Conan_Kudo wrote: post #34
kevmo314 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this an Android thing? My US iOS works fine with digital Suica.

Apple doesn't make regional variants of the phone, so all models have the technology built-in, even if it's disabled by default. Android phones outside of Japan lack Suica support.

And Pixel phones have the tech, but you need to flash a Japanese ROM to be able to use it.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#58

Post by sparkie »

The subway system in Kyoto (Karasuma line) is operated by the local government. I visited during the busiest time of the year (Gion matsuri), and the trains were not overcrowded, were frequent and arrived on the dot. The subway system is nicely air conditioned which was pleasant as I visited during a heatwave.

I'm mostly in favor of privatization, but this is an example where the local government provide an exceptional service which is in no way inferior to the privately operated ones.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#59

Post by jabl »

Conan_Kudo wrote: post #26
Gigachad wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no excuse for the US’s failure. Many countries have large areas to cover. China is a similar size and has massive HSR coverage. The US could too if they didn’t waste all the money on corruption.

China also has nationalized rail systems. The major reason for the failure in the US is that the rail lines are not publicly owned. The reason the rail systems never got upgraded and Amtrak couldn't deploy high speed rail everywhere (despite it being a national priority in the 70s, 80s, and 90s) is that outside of the northeast corridor, Amtrak doesn't own the lines and couldn't get the owners to allow Amtrak to upgr…

> China also has nationalized rail systems. The major reason for the failure in the US is that the rail lines are not publicly owned.

The article we're discussing explains that Japan has the best passenger rail system in the world, and which happens to be privatized, along with privately owned track. So which one is it? Go figure.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#60

Post by aposm »

timr wrote: post #29
wahern wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the country is long and narrow The northeast and west coast metropolitan corridors are similar, and combined have comparable populations, densities, and distances as Japan. Yet we can't even build a single high-speed line. And for all the excuses about the difficulty of building rail through developed regions, the existing rights of ways and infrastructure in both the NE and California are comparable to what everyb…

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

I think a big part of it is also that (partly because of the necessity of building for earthquake resistance), Japanese construction is a lot more robust than American housing, and also tends to have extremely good soundproofing on windows and doors. Actually, it's most of the rest of the world, except the US.
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