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In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

theguardian.com

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Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#141

Post by shibapuppie »

jeppester wrote: post #103

I live in a small Danish town that would have very likely been surrounded by solar panels by now if we had not put up a fight. The problem is that these projects are pitched to land owners, to be placed in areas they can't see from their own windows. Those who live nearby are not involved until the approval is a formality (or presented as such). Often times the investors will also pay certain house owners for their s…

What's the over-under on tire and brake dust settling on panels next to (presumably) high-speed motorways?

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#142

Post by seanmcdirmid »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #93
simmerup wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 100% an existential threat, but the existential bit happens in 100 years so of course you're not going to see it materialize over night

> It is 100% an existential threat, but the existential bit happens in 100 years No, it’s not, and no, we don’t know that. Humans will survive climate change. Rich countries will survive, too. We will all suffer. Economically, healthwise and aesthetically. But that’s not existential. Framing it as such is disingenuous and counterproductive.

We will go from 8 billion humans to maybe 1 or 2 billion humans, but that is probably going to happen either way. Poor countries will be obliterated, rich countries are likely to see tanking living standards. Long term humans go extinct (or are superseded by some sort of singularity successor) and the earth recovers in a few thousand years as if we never existed.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#143

Post by samrus »

_moof wrote: post #139
SoftTalker wrote: post #11

Denmark is a poor location for solar. They are pretty far north and don't have a lot of sunny days that are good for solar generation. When they do, those peaks drive energy prices negative. From the article: Over the next 10 years, the official expectation is a very large rise in the amount of solar produced. But that kind of clashes with the reality on the ground – they can’t make money

I don't understand why energy production must be profitable.

It does at least need to be feasible

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#144

Post by littlestymaar »

t-writescode wrote: post #79
littlestymaar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New England is Spain in terms of latitude. Americans tend to forget how far north Europe is compared to the US.

Great Britain, even more North, has viable solar on its Southern edge.

As a complementary source of energy, yes, especially in summer (because the flip side of being north is that your summer days last longer).

But in winter, you'll have something like 2-5% load factor on your solar panels…

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#145

Post by littlestymaar »

t-writescode wrote: post #54
littlestymaar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that thing has 90% of his electricity usage How is that supposed to work with cloudy days with barely 7 hours of daylight in winter?

Solar has always been a part of a wholistic strategy. We’ve known this ever since the sun went down at night and we had to compensate for it.

True, but then why claim unrealistic figures like op and their "90% of his electricity usage"…

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#146

Post by littlestymaar »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #122
littlestymaar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that thing has 90% of his electricity usage How is that supposed to work with cloudy days with barely 7 hours of daylight in winter?

Those days add to the 10%. Is that not obvious?

How do you only consume 10% of your total consumption in 1/3 of the years? Mining bitcoin in summer yo drive total consumption up?

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#147

Post by 2000UltraDeluxe »

littlestymaar wrote: post #67
detourdog wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New England it works fine and we project 3 hours of production during the winter months. Not sure what Denmark’s latitude is, but 7 hours of production is not needed.

New England is Spain in terms of latitude. Americans tend to forget how far north Europe is compared to the US.

We have solar in Finland as well, like everyone else. Yes, it's useless in winter. Yes, the expansion has slowed down, because there is no storage and limited export options.

The Nordic power market is a mess, and it's not because solar doesn't work in winter but because the grid needs massive investments on all levels and nobody wants to be left holding the bill for it.

Electrification? Sure, I'll buy an EV when the _local_ grid operator makes sure my lights don't flicker when the neighbor uses an angle grinder. The last update was that they plan to replace the old transformer station from the 60's "when it breaks".

Local generation? Can't get rid of the excess generation if I wanted to.

Is Denmark's power grid expansion still geared at selling Swedish electricity to the Germans?

Sweden? No internal transfer capacity so their consumers have constant high prices while power is exported cheaply.

Norway? Geo-blocked by Sweden.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#148

Post by Dylan16807 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #146
Dylan16807 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those days add to the 10%. Is that not obvious?

How do you only consume 10% of your total consumption in 1/3 of the years? Mining bitcoin in summer yo drive total consumption up?

Are you saying it's cloudy for four months straight?

And the panels are still making power during the winter.

A detailed chart would be nice but a good starting point to imagine is 60-70 days that average 50% solar power and the rest of the year is full solar power minus a couple particularly bad days.

Edit: In winter, in denmark, the amount of sunlight you get per square meter of flat ground is absolutely awful. But the amount of sunlight you can catch on a highly tilted solar panel is still pretty good, about half of the average output. So if you space them properly and overbuild based on the average, the 90% number isn't crazy.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#149

Post by Arn_Thor »

Aldipower wrote: post #65
Arn_Thor wrote: post #42

The Guardian continues its anti-solar crusade. For some inexplicable reason

So, looking on things from another angle is called "a crusade" nowadays. Yep, it is like it is.

Yes, looking at things from the same angle every time and not really representing the alternative view is indeed a crusade

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#150

Post by Gud »

ethan_smith wrote: post #8
mikaeluman wrote: post #3

The dirty secret is of course that the Danish power grid would be totally unusable without the base power provided from Sweden and Norway. They almost suffered a catastrophic shutdown a year or two ago and the situation has not improved

The Nordic grid was designed to work as an interconnected system though - Danish wind exports and Norwegian/Swedish hydro imports balance each other out. Calling it a "dirty secret" makes it sound like a failure when it's actually the intended architecture. Denmark is frequently a net electricity exporter.

No it wasn’t. That has come later.
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