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In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

theguardian.com

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Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#101

Post by m4rtink »

simmerup wrote: post #74
danw1979 wrote: post #58

I took a stroll recently through the countryside around Swindon, UK, where there’s a massive new solar farm on formerly arable land. One thing I only just realised was how the view from the ground is so badly affected when you’re down amidst the endless rows of panels - they reach well above head height. It’s basically like walking through a industrial estate, just with more grass in between. Really very bleak. Give…

Climate change is an existential threat, it's switch to green power asap or burn the world our kids will live in

I would actually phrase is a "fossil fuels are an existential threat" - regardless on how climmate change will impact us, it is IMHO enough to see the destructions people are capable due to fossil fuel money & it makes 100% sense to get ridd of any dependency on fossil fuels ASAP.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#102

Post by rcxdude »

I always find it kind of ironic when the more allegedly libertarian pro-farmer side of the political spectrum start to get really concerned with how farmers use their land. And a solar farm has to be the most inoffensive thing to live next to, I was frankly shocked that it was something that appeared on a house survey result as "developments nearby you might be concerned about".

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#103

Post by jeppester »

I live in a small Danish town that would have very likely been surrounded by solar panels by now if we had not put up a fight.

The problem is that these projects are pitched to land owners, to be placed in areas they can't see from their own windows. Those who live nearby are not involved until the approval is a formality (or presented as such). Often times the investors will also pay certain house owners for their silence, making the locals suspicious of each other.

They do this because obviously no one likes someone from the outside to take away the green* surroundings that are a big part of why people live there - and in the process lowering the value of everyone's houses.

I can't comprehend why someone would think that this was a good way of rolling out solar.

I agree that we are going to need solar as part of the mix. It would just be much better to start with the locations where people do NOT want to live, for instance next to motorways.

Luckily I think we are slowly moving in that direction due to all the resistance.

*I'm well aware that fields are heavy industry, but they are plants and rarely 2,5 meters tall.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#105

Post by card_zero »

amarant wrote: post #85
ceejayoz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every winter is a stretch, yes. But they did get a big warning shot in 1989 and 2011, and ignored those lessons for cost reasons. A couple hundred people died.

Which actually works out to rather more than one person per winter, when averaged out.

Like all the Canadians who die every winter in the Halifax explosion of 1917.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#106

Post by chrysoprace »

zolland wrote: post #38
dathinab wrote: post #21

not buying that this isn't anti renewable propaganda for the US the images in the article looks bad until you take a short look at satellite images and realize: - it's not the norm but the exception - the photos are made to make it look maximally bad in a deceptive/manipulative way, and that is even in context, that Denmark is a special case in that it both quite small and has little "dead" (not agriculturally effici…

The satellite photos of Hjolderup look worse than the photos in the article to me... the photos in the article seem like a fair representation of the consequences of installing solar fields like this--your house and town end up surrounded by solar panels.

Zoom out a bit though, and you quickly realise it's not the norm. There is vastly more farm land throughout the country and Hjolderup is the exception, not the rule.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#107

Post by PaulHoule »

fritzo wrote: post #57
SoftTalker wrote: post #11

Denmark is a poor location for solar. They are pretty far north and don't have a lot of sunny days that are good for solar generation. When they do, those peaks drive energy prices negative. From the article: Over the next 10 years, the official expectation is a very large rise in the amount of solar produced. But that kind of clashes with the reality on the ground – they can’t make money

If it's a poor location for photovoltaics, it's exactly as a poor for photosynthesis

In most places photosynthesis is limited by (1) the availability of water and (2) the availability of bio-available Nitrogen. Sunlight is less limiting by far.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#108

Post by simmerup »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #93
simmerup wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 100% an existential threat, but the existential bit happens in 100 years so of course you're not going to see it materialize over night

> It is 100% an existential threat, but the existential bit happens in 100 years No, it’s not, and no, we don’t know that. Humans will survive climate change. Rich countries will survive, too. We will all suffer. Economically, healthwise and aesthetically. But that’s not existential. Framing it as such is disingenuous and counterproductive.

RCP8.5 is pretty much ruled out by people as unlikely for some reason, even as we have the major super power on the planet pulling out of the Paris agreement on climate change.

There is clearly a temperature at which this planet will not support human life, and we could definitely get the planet to that temperature if we don't change course and reach net zero.

Saying its not an existential threat is just wild to me.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#109

Post by recursive »

card_zero wrote: post #99
recursive wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind and solar can provide enough energy. You may be referring to their well-publicized variability. Energy storage can solve that.

The next phase in these conversations is usually to argue back and forth about whether energy storage is going to be good enough soon, or never will be, or already is. You're naive if you think your storage solution can handle the massive reserves required, unless you're not naive for technical reasons. Don't ask me, this part is always inconclusive.

Ok, I guess we'll never know then.
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