US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional • Hacker News Board

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#261

Post by _heimdall » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 2:32 AM UTC

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #227

_heimdall wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole ball of wax here that boils down to whether a society would rather be individualistic or collectivist. Its a chicken and egg problem as well, the way we regulate and manage health care and health insurance (at least in the US) allows for costs to pretty easily bleed out to the rest of society. That implies that we must then be collectivist in other policies, though that is counter to many of the origi…

> whether a society would rather be individualistic or collectivist Like many of these sorts of choices, its false to think of it as binary because its about choosing a place on the continuum between them. On the methanal risk issue, one possible compromise would to have places which can run free checks on booze for methanal. Not too different from the practice in France where you can bring in mushrooms you've collec…

> But of course this would have to be a publicly funded service which america seems to loathe

This hasn't been my experience in the US over the last couple decades. Both parties like to complain about the other side, but they both spend money we don't have and are happy to fund new government programs as long as its their party's program.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#262

Post by btreecat » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 2:33 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #228

adzm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, ethanol is an antidote to methanol

Where's the authority on that? Ethanol can be used as a temporary measure in methanol poisoning as it temporarily outcompetes methanol in the metabolic process. So it's only useful until proper medical help arrives when better alternatives such as fomepizole are administered. Even then there is no guarantee of success. Methanol is still metabolized to dangerous formaldehyde and formic acid by the liver's alcohol dehy…

Where are the sources on your claims that ethenol is only a temporary or last ditch treatment?

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#263

Post by eru » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 3:17 AM UTC

jjtwixman wrote: post #242

eru wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Giving the states free reign to terrorise their populations didn't work out so great. Be careful not to be anachronistic. When the US was a young country, before telegraphs and railways were widespread, most people's primary interface with the government was perhaps their municipality or at the highest level perhaps their county. > The relatively strong federal government of more recent times however seems to have…

What an interesting and amusing idea. A king for every country. Anyway.

County, not country!

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#264

Post by AlotOfReading » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 4:17 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #255

AlotOfReading wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was written in 1883, as part of fundraising for the pedestal. It might not reflect precisely the "original intent" of the statue, but it's very much in line with all of the other context.

The statute of liberty was from a french admirer of the constitution and abolitionist. It was conceived at a time when Napoleon III had declared himself emperor. The connection to immigration was a completely unrelated glomming-on.

Death of the author. People sailed under the statue to get to Ellis island, it's not a difficult connection to make. The location was known when the poem was presented in 1883, 2 years before the statue arrived in the US and the author volunteered for one of the numerous aid organizations helping jewish immigrants.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#265

Post by rayiner » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 4:37 AM UTC

AlotOfReading wrote: post #264

rayiner wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statute of liberty was from a french admirer of the constitution and abolitionist. It was conceived at a time when Napoleon III had declared himself emperor. The connection to immigration was a completely unrelated glomming-on.

Death of the author. People sailed under the statue to get to Ellis island, it's not a difficult connection to make. The location was known when the poem was presented in 1883, 2 years before the statue arrived in the US and the author volunteered for one of the numerous aid organizations helping jewish immigrants.

The fact that people used it after the fact for marketing an unrelated issue doesn’t have anything to do with the original intent of the statue. There was a lot of ret-conning American history in the late 19th to early 20th century as a result of mass immigration.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#266

Post by Anamon » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 5:25 AM UTC

btreecat wrote: post #256

angry_octet wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ethanol, (which is the cure to methanol poisoning) Now that is completely incorrect. There is no way to prevent metabolism of methanol once it has been ingested, ethanol just competes with it for metabolisis. Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity "Methanol poisoning can be treated with fomepizole or ethanol.[19][22][23] Both drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition. Ethanol, the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, acts as a competitive inhibitor by more effectively binding and saturating the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the liver, thus blocki…

From how I'm reading this, you're disagreeing with the parent but your quotes actually support what they wrote? Ethanol is not an antidote or "cure", it's more or less an attempt at dilution. There are other posts in this thread explaining why it's dangerous to believe that methanol poisoning can simply be counteracted with ethanol.

>Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects.

I don't think the "to" here is meant to imply intent. It's "enough to", referring to the amount. I don't know where the notion comes from that people try to intentionally poison people with moonshine. Maybe in a Columbo episode. It happens when people cut corners or don't pay attention or get scammed.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#267

Post by Anamon » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 5:35 AM UTC

ciupicri wrote: post #178

martin-t wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If laws were written by engineers, all sums of money would be expressed relative to median income. And at that point it wouldn't be a stretch for most people to make the connection that some people are more privileged than others and fines should be relative to personal wealth and income. Imagine if laws were written by people who know what a function is...

From https://etsc.eu/billionaires-eur-25000-drink-driving-fine-pu... > A Norwegian billionaire that recorded a BAC level three times higher than the legal limit has been banned from driving and handed a 250,000 krone fine (EUR 25,000). But the fine could have been much higher as, under Norwegian law, fines are linked to monthly income and in some cases overall wealth. > Finland has a ‘day fine’ system, with penalties…

I think it's pretty common in Europe, at least for minor offences. We have it in Switzerland, too. How it works here is that the fines are defined in "day rates" instead of monetary amount, and a day rate is half your daily income.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#268

Post by angry_octet » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 7:23 AM UTC

btreecat wrote: post #256

angry_octet wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ethanol, (which is the cure to methanol poisoning) Now that is completely incorrect. There is no way to prevent metabolism of methanol once it has been ingested, ethanol just competes with it for metabolisis. Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity "Methanol poisoning can be treated with fomepizole or ethanol.[19][22][23] Both drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition. Ethanol, the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, acts as a competitive inhibitor by more effectively binding and saturating the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the liver, thus blocki…

Alcohol is not an antidote! It only competes with enzyme binding to slow the production of fomic acid.

Fomepizole costs thousands of dollars and is often unstocked for that reason in many countries, although I guess it will become stocked in the US now. Dialysis machines are also in short supply. One mass poisoning event would overwhelm available dialysis resources in a state.

>>Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects.

> Again, as I said, someone intentionally trying to poison you.

No, someone in the supply chain making cash. Someone swapped in some 20% methanol and hoped it would go unnoticed.

You can cherry pick a study from Texas where there are hardcore home distillers, but that won't change what happens when a heap of amateurs across the country do it.

Eg Turkey https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11097313/

Also let's not ignore the toxic copper and lead in the moonshine. It is a persistent problem.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01960...

Obviously you are going to hold tight to your beliefs. Please spread them somewhere else.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#269

Post by angry_octet » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 7:25 AM UTC

Anamon wrote: post #266

btreecat wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity "Methanol poisoning can be treated with fomepizole or ethanol.[19][22][23] Both drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition. Ethanol, the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, acts as a competitive inhibitor by more effectively binding and saturating the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the liver, thus blocki…

From how I'm reading this, you're disagreeing with the parent but your quotes actually support what they wrote? Ethanol is not an antidote or "cure", it's more or less an attempt at dilution. There are other posts in this thread explaining why it's dangerous to believe that methanol poisoning can simply be counteracted with ethanol. >Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to…

The US Govt did it during prohibition. It has been retconned by wacky homebrew fringe into a belief that all poisonings are due to adulteration, probably by Big Alcohol.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#270

Post by jjtwixman » Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 7:43 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #263

jjtwixman wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an interesting and amusing idea. A king for every country. Anyway.

County, not country!

Sorry, I couldn't even type it out it would seem, it was too silly.

Anyway, you sound like me when I was about 19, lots of abstract theories and ideas without any ties to the real world we find ourselves in. I don't regret it but I'm glad I grew out of it . It's not stuff to be taken seriously. All the best.