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Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

the-independent.com

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Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the list of high energy prices and blackouts?

Although "Getting rid of cheaper electricity generation would make the electricity cheaper" is genuinely an actual right wing talking point in the UK it doesn't make any sense. The reason it's a talking point is that they're funded by billionaires who'd reap the rewards from new fossil fuel licensing. They know they can't deliver, but what they learned from Brexit is that their supporters aren't too smart and simple…

> Although "Getting rid of cheaper electricity generation would make the electricity cheaper" is genuinely an actual right wing talking point in the UK it doesn't make any sense

Can you cite this please?

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#232
post #57

Pushback against the outliers of small + blessed with hydro and geothermal is overshadowing real wins: - California: 83% renewable, dominated by solar - Spain: 73%, dominated by solar & wind - Portugal: 90%, dominated by wind & solar - The Netherlands: 86%, dominated by solar & wind - Great Britain: 71%, dominated by wind & solar There's real momentum happening.

California is not anywhere near 83% renewable for total electricity generation. [1] Are you just adding up nameplace capacities without capacity factors? 1. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=66704

83 renewable isn’t right, but it’s up to 67% clean in 2025, which is still pretty impressive

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#233
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "accumulate the heat over thousands of years" indeed sounds a bit misleading to me. The heat is largely already there (or is generated pretty uniformly through radioactive processes), it's just slowly transmitted outwards down a gradient.

No, the heat is not already there. The heat comes in and goes out; the heat energy initially in the crust decays away exponentially with time and has no effect on the steady stage temperature gradient.

What do you mean? It's already in the core and gradually reaches us through the crust. What's your point/distinction here, exactly?

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#234
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No member of the public has died from civilian nuclear power in the US. Significantly more people have died installing solar panels by falling off of roofs.

That's why I mentioned expected values. Historical data alone is too sparse. I don't doubt that that resulting number is still very low, or there (being intentionally optimistic about politics and society here) wouldn't be any nuclear plants. Especially long-term storage is tricky, and if you need to consider time horizons of millenia, even small risks add up. > Significantly more people have died installing solar pa…

> That's why I mentioned expected values. Historical data alone is too sparse.

The data is sparse because the rate is very low. If the world used twice as much nuclear power as it does now, we don't have enough statistical data to predict with high accuracy if something as bad as Chernobyl would happen two more times or zero more times but the existing data allows us to be pretty confident it wouldn't be 100 more times. Meanwhile coal kills more people than 100 Chernobyls every year in just the US.

There is also reason to suspect Chernobyl was an outlier because the USSR was such an authoritarian nightmare. They not only screwed up the design of the reactor (positive void coefficient, no containment building) but then also its operation and the response. The majority of the confirmed deaths were plant workers and emergency responders who got radiation exposure after being sent in without training or relevant equipment. It took the USSR more than three days to admit that it had even happened so that people living next to the plant would know to leave the immediate area. Screwing it up that bad required more than an honest mistake.

> Especially long-term storage is tricky, and if you need to consider time horizons of millenia, even small risks add up.

The "thousands of years" thing is essentially fake. Radiological half-life is the inverse of intensity. Things with a half-life of five minutes are super radioactive. Things with a half-life of thousands of years aren't much above background.

For example, there is an isotope of uranium that has a half-life of four billion years. It's also a pain because its decay chain contains radon gas. ZOMG what are we going to do with it for that long? Well, that's the one that represents 99.3% of natural uranium straight out of the ground, which is why homes in areas with natural granite need radon reduction systems, so it turns out the answer to what we do with it is we can put it in a reactor and use it to generate electricity and that will turn it into something with a shorter half life that goes away sooner. And the major ones that are "thousands of years" can also be used to generate electricity if we would actually separate them and use them for that to get rid of them instead of wringing our hands about where we're supposed to keep them.

> In fairness, you then also have to consider "regular" industrial accidents at nuclear plants, which are probably still much lower (due to the presumably much higher energy output per employee hour than other forms).

It's also lower because nuclear plants are pretty obsessive about safety vs. random solar installation company whose job application test is to see if you can make it onto a third story roof with a two story ladder.

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No member of the public has died from civilian nuclear power in the US. Significantly more people have died installing solar panels by falling off of roofs.

Nobody has died from nuclear accidents. If we’re including workers falling off of roofs then we should include nuclear power plant workers dying from mundane industrial accidents which has happened in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_River_Junction,_Rhode_Isl...

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of this is unnecessary regulatory burden, though? There probably is some margin of improvement over what the anti-nuclear lobbyists have imposed.

It's not the regulations, it's the financing scheme: if it's not state backed with a long investment horizon, it's very expensive because private investors expect 10% yields in the middle of a ZIRP to cover from the possible political reversal. The Hinckley Point C EPR reactor would have produced electricity at a rate below £20/MWh instead of a planned £80/MWh if it was financed by government bonds.

It's not just political reversal risk; there's the risk of technological obsolescence. It's very much a stretch to assume a nuclear plant will remain operationally viable (in the sense of being competitive) for 40 years, never mind the 60 or 80 years sometimes mentioned, because the competition isn't standing still.

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#237
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the heat is not already there. The heat comes in and goes out; the heat energy initially in the crust decays away exponentially with time and has no effect on the steady stage temperature gradient.

What do you mean? It's already in the core and gradually reaches us through the crust. What's your point/distinction here, exactly?

It was not initially in the rocks that we are tapping for geothermal energy, which would be a few kilometers. I wasn't talking about the Earth as a whole. Remember, this is about why so much more thickness is needed for the rocks for ordinary geothermal energy systems, vs. artificial geothermal.

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is an expected problem with renewables that can be engineered around. It's unlikely the whole world has a drought at once during a calm night, so developing ways to transmit power long distances will be important.

Or just use nuclear as base load, and battery storage as much as you can.

Over-provisioning with renewables is cheaper

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#239
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need battery storage if you've got hydro. You need solar. Make hydro the backup, fill reservoirs as your reserve and sell extra energy when they're nearly full.

Pumped hydro storage only holds about 8-12 hours of power. To be economically viable to build you need to cycle it daily. It uses enormous amounts of land and capital to build, and is ongoingly dangerous in a unique way. If LiFePO4 can do 4 hours at full output already, and be placed anywhere using volume manufacturing to expand, then batteries are straight up better. Pumped hydro is an expensive dead end.

In NZ we're discussing pumped hydro in Lake Onslow which will provides months of backup for the country

Re: Seven countries now generate nearly all their electricity from renewables (2024)

#240
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some it's an eye-opening experience when they compare the states which are the most vocal about going solar and have a look onto the solar map of the world. Or then they talk about how some countries have miraculous levels of an energy independence and social services and then look at their total population.

Tbf, solar has gotten so much more effective/cost efficient in the last 12-24 months that it's beating pretty much everything aside from hydro in the cost efficiency department at this point - including (most of) northern Europe and Canada. Most data you find will be using data that's massively out of date and be off by at least 2x though... I had another facepalm moment when I read about EU planning to go nuclear ag…

> I had another facepalm moment when I read about EU planning to go nuclear again. That would've been amazing and smart in 2015 - but now? Yeah, it's dumb af. And that's coming from a German living at the northern end of the country.

In 2015, Germany produced about 650 TWh of electricity. In 2025, it’s around 507 TWh, a drop of roughly 22–23%.

Consumption has also declined, mainly due to efficiency improvements, higher energy prices, and weaker industrial demand.

Per person, that’s about 7,900 kWh in 2015 vs ~6,000 kWh in 2025. France is at roughly 8,000 kWh per person today, so basically where Germany used to be.

This happened despite adding about 100 TWh from wind and solar combined over the same period.

Wind is still volatile and hasn’t really ramped much in recent years, while solar is growing steadily, but mostly helps in summer.

And that’s the core issue. Solar output in summer is roughly 3× higher than in winter, so just adding more solar doesn’t solve those cold, dark winter periods without massive storage or backup.

To get back to 2015 production levels of around 650 TWh, Germany would need to increase output by about 30%. With solar growing by roughly 13–14 TWh per year and wind not increasing much recently, that puts you close to a decade just to get back to where you were, while 2030 demand is already projected at 700–750 TWh.

Given that Germany still imports around 70% of its total energy, it’s hard to call it a “facepalm” to suggest nuclear as part of the mix.

Also worth noting that Germany is still slow on smart meter rollout, with only around 2% of metering points using smart metering systems so far. That limits how much consumers can respond to real-time prices. During tight periods, this can increase reliance on imports and contribute to higher prices in connected markets such as the Nordics.

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