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AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

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Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#621

Post by thrance »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #135
thrance wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably read up on cognitive dissonance, because this ain't it. Here's what the author actually wrote: > Nothing that Altman could say justifies violence against him. This is an undeniable truth. But unfortunately, violence might still ensue. I hope not, but I guess we are seeing what appears to be the first cases.

> Nothing that Altman could say justifies violence against him. Not arguing with you, but the author, I don't understand this line of thinking. If Altman introduces a technology that effectively halts the upward mobility of a large portion of the population, how does that not justify violence? Saving up for a house but now there's no work. Your dreams and aspirations are second to shareholder value. The police are al…

Maybe the author believes in the fact that violence is never justified, and thus the things you mentioned can only be used to explain violence, never justify it? Either way, it's a weird way to think indeed.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#622

Post by BobbyJo »

generj wrote: post #509
BobbyJo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the totality of the private sector. Literally every company in US with more than 100 employees is trying to position itself effectively. The government is as well, to a much smaller degree, but the fact remains that there is too many unknowns right now to do anything concrete with any great level of confidence. We tried UBI-lite™ during COVID and inflation exploded, so unless the economy has already changed sign…

Tbf UBI-lite during COVID was paired with 2 things: 1) massive handouts to business owners through forgiven “loans.” Predictably this had massive fraud, some of which was prosecuted but not much. 2) massively constrained supply chains which caused higher prices. I suspect 2 at least would have caused inflation regardless of the stimulus checks. It’s unclear to what extent UBI causes persistent inflation. Proponents c…

That's fair, but I would expect the bullwhip that followed the supply chain issues would have reversed a lot of the price increases, but inflation continued well into 2023 and even today is elevated above pre-COVID.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#623

Post by littlexsparkee »

jfengel wrote: post #494
jplusequalt wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising taxes is the only possible way a UBI would be feasible, and even then it wouldn't be a large enough amount for most people to live off of. Also, a UBI is likely to cause inflation.

There is currently more than enough total production for people to live quite well. If AIs simply replace people, the same total work gets done. It's just a matter of who gets the profits from it. It won't be that simple, to be sure. Nonetheless we already produce far more than subsistence, and there's no reason why a UBI would change that. If it increases the price of some commodities because now everyone can buy th…

If nearly everyone is already covering subsistence needs directly or via assistance (SNAP, food banks), why would UBI cause inflation? the only thing changing is who buys it

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#624

Post by TeMPOraL »

UncleMeat wrote: post #599
Lerc wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a accidentally good example, we don't know what motivated him, while your ridiculous reason is unsound because it would be also a bad thing to do if he were clearing a wasps nest on someone else's property in the middle of the night. I suspect that they are not a bad person but someone radicalised by the media they consume. Firebombing someone's house is a bad thing to do. It doesn't mean they are necessarily…

I don't care if Altman is secretly a good person. I care very deeply that he is taking actions to harm the world in grievous ways and is not doing any visible thing to mitigate the extreme damage he will do. "Altman is secretly a good guy" doesn't pay people's mortgages.

I doubt it nets positive or even cancels out the damage, but if we're taking a fuller picture, then we shouldn't also assume Altman / other AI company CEOs are "taking actions to harm the world in grievous ways" for shits and giggles, or for large payday. Despite what skimming HN would make one believe, AI tools are actually useful in science, technology, and all kinds of productive work.

So the silver lining is this - they're not risking to burn the world down for porn or bitcoin, but for general improvement in everything across the board, that happens to have an unfortunate side effect of destroying value of labor.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#625

Post by bizzletk »

fastforwardius wrote: post #119
hackrmn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to stir up the hornet's nest here, but in my humble opinion the entire problem rests on the unabated and unchecked modern and "late-stage" capitalism model, championed by the U.S. and since exported to and sprung good root everywhere else, even in Europe where it as of yet has a few more checks and balances (which unsurprisingly draws a lot of ire from its acolytes and priests across the Atlantic). Sovie…

Which part of societal model you find inferior? I thought it was mostly economics and bureaucracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Communists_Have_Better_Sex%...

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#626

Post by rayiner »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #396
estimator7292 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone . That includes the small number of people hoarding a majority of the wealth. Everyone needs to contribute to the wellbeing of society as a whole and nobody is exempt.

I'd like to emphasize that the above should be immediately obvious. The fact that it's not does not bode well for humanity's future. Billionaires simply _should not exist_. The fact that the power to shape societies is concentrated in so few can account for many of the existential threats we face today. AI is not "the problem", it's merely the latest symptom of our broken system and the prioritization of the wrong go…

> Billionaires simply _should not exist

Billionaires who inherit their wealth shouldn’t exist. But I have no problem with people like Bezos owning a sizable percentage share of valuable companies they created. When I was a kid, getting something ordered by mail took a week or two, even if you called in the order. UPS and FedEx existed, warehouses and storage trucks existed, but Bezos reduced that to a matter of hours. And now the sheeple can get their daily Amazon deliveries while complaining that Bezos is making a nickel on each one.

In a purely analytical calculation—without emotional nonsense—one Jeff Bezos obviously is vastly more beneficial to society than thousands of ordinary people. If we just had school teachers, or whoever else you idealize, we’d all be living in mud huts. The average person would be living like an animal without the technology created by exceptional people like Bezos. Why shouldn’t society reward them lavishly?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#627

Post by FrustratedMonky »

lostmsu wrote: post #461
DrProtic wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have many videos of protests in Iran even though they shut down internet, but somehow we have no videos of mass killings or even small scale murders.

Wouldn't they shut down the Internet for me but not for thee?

So, are you guys saying, that the mass killings of protestors, did NOT happen?

This is all just made up?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#628

Post by littlexsparkee »

nearbuy wrote: post #519
integralid wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and companies Make lobbying illegal, I don't understand why it's normalized.

Lobbying is "directly advocating for or against particular legislation or regulations." Writing your representative is lobbying. Fighting bad legislation is lobbying. Any good faith attempt to argue a position on a government policy is lobbying. Giving money to politicians or their campaigns is not lobbying, and it is already illegal for lobbyists to do so. What could and should be made illegal is allowing unlimited…

It's one thing when a bill on technology is misunderstood by regulators and insiders provide context on unintended consequences, another when checks are written such that the voice of polluting industries outweighs voters' desire for clean air and water.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#629

Post by tokioyoyo »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #130
tokioyoyo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. And since then, there hasn’t been a single large scale test of the system to see if it can be compatible with the current version of capitalism that’s ran in the most of the world. Even if I support UBI morally, there isn’t even local appetite for it, yet alone global one. And you’ll run into qui…

"no large scale test" seems false -- there have been several? "Compatible with current version of captialism" -- the whole point of UBI is to create a new form of capitalism

I'm sorry, but we might have different definitions of "large scale". There's functional, feasible, and cultural differences when it comes to trying it on 5,000 people in a small town, versus trying it on a whole state / big city and etc.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#630

Post by tokioyoyo »

MidnightRider39 wrote: post #131
tokioyoyo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. And since then, there hasn’t been a single large scale test of the system to see if it can be compatible with the current version of capitalism that’s ran in the most of the world. Even if I support UBI morally, there isn’t even local appetite for it, yet alone global one. And you’ll run into qui…

Here is a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots Probably not the scale you imagine but there have been plenty of tests.

Yeah, I have looked through those. I remember personally as the Ontario one was going through. Even then it already had a huge backlash, and people were opposing to it because of "fairness and etc.". Unfortunately none of those tests can help with understanding what would happen to inflation, jobs that nobody wants to do, life satisfaction of middle class, and everything else, to be honest. And I also understand that trying it out on any large populace is incredibly expensive.
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