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AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

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Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#511

Post by 0xpiguy »

DavidPiper wrote: post #198
Avicebron wrote: post #150

I feel like if people keep using AI as a blanket term for "inequality" and "inequality accelerants" then yeah, it's "AI"'s fault. When in reality the whole thing needs to be decoupled.. "Gleefully taking away people's livelihoods will be met with violence, and nothing good will come of it." - fixed.

I wholeheartedly agree with and encourage this kind of academic distinction. However... Until people with billions of dollars behind them do something with that money to offset the financial hardship that they're knowingly - and gleefully - bringing to others... The distinction has no practical use. (And before someone says "that's the government's job!", consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and compa…

I do think there is a good chance that, in the not-so-distant future, universal basic income will become the norm. In previous industrial revolutions, large numbers of jobs were created to offset those that were lost. But there are very few things AI cannot perform faster and cheaper. Best case scenario, we will be in a world with both high productivity and high unemployment. Governments may have no choice but to provide universal income to everyone.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#513

Post by kjkjadksj »

0xpiguy wrote: post #511
DavidPiper wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree with and encourage this kind of academic distinction. However... Until people with billions of dollars behind them do something with that money to offset the financial hardship that they're knowingly - and gleefully - bringing to others... The distinction has no practical use. (And before someone says "that's the government's job!", consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and compa…

I do think there is a good chance that, in the not-so-distant future, universal basic income will become the norm. In previous industrial revolutions, large numbers of jobs were created to offset those that were lost. But there are very few things AI cannot perform faster and cheaper. Best case scenario, we will be in a world with both high productivity and high unemployment. Governments may have no choice but to pro…

We can’t even deliver on universal healthcare. UBI is an even bigger pipe dream for american politics.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#514

Post by 9x39 »

jfengel wrote: post #494
jplusequalt wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising taxes is the only possible way a UBI would be feasible, and even then it wouldn't be a large enough amount for most people to live off of. Also, a UBI is likely to cause inflation.

There is currently more than enough total production for people to live quite well. If AIs simply replace people, the same total work gets done. It's just a matter of who gets the profits from it. It won't be that simple, to be sure. Nonetheless we already produce far more than subsistence, and there's no reason why a UBI would change that. If it increases the price of some commodities because now everyone can buy th…

If that were true, we wouldn’t see the inflation we do from more dollars chasing the same (or less) goods.

Even if it were true, you still have distribution. You can’t get goods across a nation, let alone the globe, without significant inputs.

Are you checking the local grocery store and extrapolating globally?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#515

Post by fireflash38 »

Lerc wrote: post #281
UncleMeat wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can look at their actions, in particular their efforts to influence public policy.

You can, but then what? Do you judge what they say as if their perspective is the same as yours, and then conclude from that context that what they suggest could only come from an evil person. That seems to be what a lot of people do. What if they actually think what they are suggesting is the best thing for the world? How can you tell what is in their minds? Alternately you could criticise their arguments instead of…

Judge people by actions not what they say.

You are arguing the opposite, that we should judge by what they say and not what they do?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#516

Post by salawat »

jplusequalt wrote: post #463
DroneBetter wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well inflation is equivalent to a flat wealth tax that doesn't consider insoluble assets, and is entirely in the hands of the government that imposes the UBI. "cause increased prices for consumer/essential goods" is what you meant (since buying power is moved to people who are reliant on buying them), but this is a one-time transition to a new equilibrium (so is mitigable by increasing the UBI to account for it), not…

True, but again, the other points are more damning. We're talking about an increased federal budget in the hundreds of billions/trillions to support such a UBI. That will cause a massive increase in taxation on the people who can still find jobs. To make matters worst, the government in 10-15 years will likely be spending ~25% of it's budget on interest payments alone. Hiking the federal budget up even more sounds li…

As opposed to dead people because no one is hiring to pay people to participate in a market they've been evicted from?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#517

Post by dasil003 »

deaux wrote: post #473
dasil003 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Tristan Harris' take on the situation, which is both more nuanced and more actionable. The idea being that the system and incentives are set up to select amoral technologists who will make money for shareholders, so inevitably the ones that come into power will be the ones don't see a problem with replacing all of human labor (because that's the only outcome that can justify the investment made). Reading Cory…

I question how universal that is. There seems to be a meaningful difference between Altman and Amodei, for one. The Whatsapp founder was a decent guy as well, and I believe him when he claims to genuinely regret selling out. I'm sure there's more examples. I think that framing at is "the system is set up this way" reads too passive. It reads as if it excuses the likes of Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Peter…

That's fair. Yes they are all individuals with their own unique perspective and approaches, and we should definitely hold them accountable for their impacts. I'm not saying the systemic incentives absolve them of responsibility, I'm just saying that we can not depend on CEOs of corporations to do the right thing. This is the role of government, but even moreso, elected representatives are people too, so actually it depends on a more fundamental movement of the people en masse to make it known to our representatives that this is way bigger than partisan politics.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#518

Post by Loughla »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #362
estimator7292 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone . That includes the small number of people hoarding a majority of the wealth. Everyone needs to contribute to the wellbeing of society as a whole and nobody is exempt.

Good luck taking away the detached single family homes, pickup trucks, SUVs, commercial flights, out of season fruits/vegetables, and imported manufactured goods. The people that expect those things are the “ small number of people hoarding a majority of the wealth”, and there are quite a few of them (probably 1B+ worldwide).

There is a wild difference between asking people not to eat apples in December in the northern hemisphere and asking people not to move wealth around to avoid paying taxes when they have more resources available to them than multiple countries.

Comparing middle income 1st world citizens to dragons on their mountains of gold is disingenuous at best.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#519

Post by nearbuy »

integralid wrote: post #242
DavidPiper wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree with and encourage this kind of academic distinction. However... Until people with billions of dollars behind them do something with that money to offset the financial hardship that they're knowingly - and gleefully - bringing to others... The distinction has no practical use. (And before someone says "that's the government's job!", consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and compa…

>consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and companies Make lobbying illegal, I don't understand why it's normalized.

Lobbying is "directly advocating for or against particular legislation or regulations." Writing your representative is lobbying. Fighting bad legislation is lobbying. Any good faith attempt to argue a position on a government policy is lobbying.

Giving money to politicians or their campaigns is not lobbying, and it is already illegal for lobbyists to do so.

What could and should be made illegal is allowing unlimited political campaign donations via Super PACs. Political donations aren't lobbying.

It's worth being clear about what you actually want to make illegal because you probably don't want to ban anyone from arguing a political position.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#520

Post by xp84 »

tedivm wrote: post #350
Lerc wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nick Hanauer has lobbied for higher minimum wages. Michael Bloomberg has lobbied for healthcare. Pierre Omidyar has spent about a billion on economic advancement non-profits Gates Foundation - Bunch of stuff. Warren Buffet - Too much to count George Soros - For all the antisemitism, the kernel of truth in the lie is that he spends a lot of money trying to make the world better. Chuck Feeny gave away $8B I'm sure some…

>Why treat them as the enemy, when a dialog might cause them to reach common ground about what is the right thing. People like Elon literally are the enemy. He used his wealth to literally change our government in his favor. The idea that we need to go and have polite discussions to maybe change his mind, while he gets to stomp all over us (his DOGE efforts literally resulted in people dying). If a dialog with them w…

Please consider your biases. Musk could not have “changed” the government if the DNC didn’t hand it to Trump on a platter. Republicans took over because serious people had had enough with the DNC’s full-throated embrace of two things: race-based selection (with the unpopular Harris’s undemocratic coronation as the flagship example), and the relentless focus on trans ideology (to the point anyone not endorsing the fullest embrace of that idea has been declared equivalent to the worst racist). Without that, Democrats would have remained a powerful and relevant party and Musk would have gotten nothing he wanted.
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