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AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

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Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#221

Post by DavidPiper »

rayiner wrote: post #208
DavidPiper wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree with and encourage this kind of academic distinction. However... Until people with billions of dollars behind them do something with that money to offset the financial hardship that they're knowingly - and gleefully - bringing to others... The distinction has no practical use. (And before someone says "that's the government's job!", consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and compa…

How much actual money do you think the “people with billions of dollars” have in comparison to the needs of the population as a whole? I think you’re very confused about where the actual income in the economy goes.

I am not at all proposing that "people with billions of dollars" somehow directly pay for "the needs of the population as a whole".

I'm considering "actual power", rather than "actual income".

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#222

Post by ccortes »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #159
PontifexMinimus wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is different. It promises to be able to do everything humans can, but better and more cheaply. When AIs can do every human job cheaper than the subsistence cost of employing a human, humans will be economically obsolete and worthless. Then there's the minor issue of AI deciding to just wipe us out because we're in the way. Taking everything together, AI more powerful than that which currently exists must not be cr…

Before the industrial revolution, approximately 90% of people worked in agriculture. In fully industrialized countries, that figure is now <2%. That decrease constituted a nearly full replacement of everything humans were doing, better and more cheaply. While this time might be different, I don't think this is a given.

Maybe it’s not a given, but it is part of the sales pitch for CEOs. A few others have announced layoffs due to AI being better and more efficient than humans.

How much truth there is to it we don’t know for sure. But it’s not something to be ignored.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#223

Post by rayiner »

DavidPiper wrote: post #221
rayiner wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much actual money do you think the “people with billions of dollars” have in comparison to the needs of the population as a whole? I think you’re very confused about where the actual income in the economy goes.

I am not at all proposing that "people with billions of dollars" somehow directly pay for "the needs of the population as a whole". I'm considering "actual power", rather than "actual income".

Then who pays for it?

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#224

Post by cindyllm »

ahjustacommente wrote: post #178

I think a lot of HN readers and a lot of first world/law abiding dwelllers in this and recent threads forget to think. Violence is not a panacea, but often, the outlet. Yes we all (majority of sane) people know that violence is not the answer yada yada yada. Doesn’t matter. It will happen anyway. Saying “it shouldn’t happen, it does not solve X” will not stop it to becoming an outlet for frustrated people.

[dead]

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#225

Post by skybrian »

ahjustacommente wrote: post #178

I think a lot of HN readers and a lot of first world/law abiding dwelllers in this and recent threads forget to think. Violence is not a panacea, but often, the outlet. Yes we all (majority of sane) people know that violence is not the answer yada yada yada. Doesn’t matter. It will happen anyway. Saying “it shouldn’t happen, it does not solve X” will not stop it to becoming an outlet for frustrated people.

There’s a sort of fatalism about violence here, like someone saying that school shootings are always going to happen.

It’s true that you or I aren’t likely to do anything about school shootings. But I’m not sure it follows that nothing can be done.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#226

Post by MontyCarloHall »

Avicebron wrote: post #150

I feel like if people keep using AI as a blanket term for "inequality" and "inequality accelerants" then yeah, it's "AI"'s fault. When in reality the whole thing needs to be decoupled.. "Gleefully taking away people's livelihoods will be met with violence, and nothing good will come of it." - fixed.

People currently assume AI will be an accelerant of inequality because all currently useful models (i.e. those potentially capable of mass labor disruption) are only able to run in multibillion dollar datacenters, with all returns accruing disproportionately to the oligarchs who own said datacenters.

I'm not sure this moat is inevitably perpetual. It's likely computing technology evolves to the point of being able to run frontier-level models on our phones and laptops. It's also likely that with diminishing marginal returns, future datacenter-level models will not be dramatically more capable than future local models. In that case, the power of AI would be (almost) fully democratized, obviating any oligarchic concentration of power. Everyone would have equal access to the ultimate means of production.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#227

Post by eMPee584 »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #133
DrProtic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is 0 evidence that many people died. Let’s not parrot that media propaganda.

I was thinking about this, if the deaths were actually at the scale of 10's of thousands, would that not be visible from space? The US must have several dozen spy satellites pointed at Iran. We get various imagery to show us successful strikes. Where are the images of the mass slaughter in the street? The number I keep seeing is 30k killed. That's not an easy endeavor over the course of a week without big logistical…

your assumption being the thugs mugging these protesters take care of the dead bodies, which I doubt

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#228

Post by wongarsu »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #207
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate just how much we value human achievement. Why do we watch Olympic runners, when cars on your average city street easily exceed Usain Bolt's top speed on their morning drive to Starbucks? Why do we watch the Tour de France, when we can watch Uber Eats drivers on their 150cc scooters easily outpace top cyclists? I'm sure within a couple years a Boston Dynamics robot will be able to out-gymnast…

> Why do we watch Olympic runners, when cars on your average city street easily exceed Usain Bolt's top speed on their morning drive to Starbucks? Why do we watch the Tour de France, when we can watch Uber Eats drivers on their 150cc scooters easily outpace top cyclists? I'm sure within a couple years a Boston Dynamics robot will be able to out-gymnast Simone Biles or out-skate Surya Bonaly. Big sports events are the…

To be fair, most robot turnaments are still very much about human intellectual and engineering achievements. The robots are just a vessel

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#229

Post by dirasieb »

DrProtic wrote: post #117
TiredOfLife wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran killed 10 times more during protests without using AI. So AI is a clear improvement.

There is 0 evidence that many people died. Let’s not parrot that media propaganda.

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Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#230

Post by conartist6 »

ekidd wrote: post #158
surgical_fire wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If AI eliminates the need for creativity and work, it means that our creativity and work are not meaningful enough to warrant survival. I don't think we're anywhere near that point.

Personally, I would surprised if we are less than 3 years or more than 20 years from humans being obsolete. That is, humans would be economic dead weight, any job could be done better by AI/robots, and "comparative advantage" wouldn't apply because it's cheap enough to just make more robots. At this point, the average human would be completely useless to the billionaires (or to the AIs, if the billionaires fail to co…

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