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Alone Together, Again

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Re: Alone Together, Again

#91

Post by philwelch »

btilly wrote: post #42
philwelch wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I buy this. First off, why are people going to therapy unless something is wrong? Secondly, once this person goes to therapy and ends up asking for a divorce, what makes the other person such a reliable source on whether things were going well?

You made an incorrect assumption about who I have heard these stories from. When the person who asked for the divorce concludes that the marriage actually was fine until they screwed it up on the bad advice of the crappy therapist, that's pretty good evidence that the marriage fundamentally had nothing wrong with it. As for going into therapy, people do that all of the time for all sorts of reasons. I can personally…

When it's the person who asked for a divorce--yes, you're right there. There are certainly enough shitty therapists out there. But probably even more ex-spouses who are oblivious to problems.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#93

Post by adambyrtek »

apgwoz wrote: post #72
jackowayed wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't put so much stock in an online dating algorithm. He was just trying to illustrate how perfect everything seemed, how sure of everything he was, until suddenly that stable-seeming foundation fell out from under him. There's no way that in a post that explores the limits of technology, he's actually trying to make some claim that he missed a huge red flag in an online dating algorithm's output, nor that we should…

> Don't put so much stock in an online dating algorithm. I wouldn't put so much stock in someone like eHarmony, but OkCupid--sure! Those guys use math! disclaimer: I work for OkCupid Labs.

The fact that you use math doesn't prove anything, especially in an area as complicated as human relationship.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#94

Post by btilly »

philwelch wrote: post #91
btilly wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made an incorrect assumption about who I have heard these stories from. When the person who asked for the divorce concludes that the marriage actually was fine until they screwed it up on the bad advice of the crappy therapist, that's pretty good evidence that the marriage fundamentally had nothing wrong with it. As for going into therapy, people do that all of the time for all sorts of reasons. I can personally…

When it's the person who asked for a divorce--yes, you're right there. There are certainly enough shitty therapists out there. But probably even more ex-spouses who are oblivious to problems.

Agreed, as I said it is an edge case.

The common trend is that married couples start off with some reassurance rituals to let the other know that you're still madly in love. Over time the rituals get abbreviated, but remain as a sign of reassurance. However they've become habit, even if there are problems they will be kept up.

Then when the problems get to be too much for one person, the other is blindsided because, "(S)he gave me a kiss and told me (s)he loved me every morning!" OK, (s)he did. But did (s)he do that because (s)he thought you expected her to, or because (s)he meant it?

(Disclaimer. I've been married for 22 years. My perspective is that if you don't know what can go wrong, you are left with just hoping that it will go right.)

Re: Alone Together, Again

#95

Post by davidu »

jdietrich wrote: post #37
colmvp wrote: post #3

“Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. It’s really that simple. That’s never happened – THAT would be sad. If two people were married and they were really happy and they just had a great thing, and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times. Literally zero.” Louis CK

Bullshit. I personally know of at least two marriages that ended in divorce for reasons entirely unrelated to the quality of the relationship - one or both parties had a mid-life crisis, tried to reinvent themselves to assuage their existential angst, divorced, utterly alienated their partner in the process and ended up bitterly regretting it. Deciding to divorce doesn't mean that your marriage is bad, it just means…

Your first paragraph might have changed my life.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#96

Post by _debug_ »

> I packed up what was left, put all but necessities into storage. Sold my car.

(Not directly related to the article, but) : In the West, is it always the husband that has to leave the house? I once saw a movie in which the husband comes home and discovers that he being offered a divorce, and the wife says, "Leave my home". She was a stay-at-home wife, and he was working. I found it odd that she refers to it "my home" rather than "our home" or "the home" or "I think it is better if we both live apart", which is more civil.

If so, it's a cultural dictum, rather than a legal one, right?

(I am from India and I don't know many divorced people).

Re: Alone Together, Again

#97

Post by nvarsj »

Vivtek wrote: post #57
kamaal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

If you ask me (married 23 years), it's because people get married for the wrong reasons. They get married because society expects them to get married, nobody tells them that spending a lot of time with another human being is really, really hard (in this modern world where both partners are equal partners with full rights), and when - not if - things go wrong, they think "the marriage" is falling apart. So it does. My…

Just to add to this, which I agree with, I also think conflict resolution is huge.

You really gotta get that bad stuff out in the open, talk about it, yell about, whatever it takes. Don't be pissed off about something for weeks on end (even more than a day is too long). To keep a marriage strong, both partners have to learn to deal w/ each other's idiosyncrasies and communicate about perceived grievances, annoyances, and so on. Extreme stubbornness, selfishness, all these things are pretty much incompatible with a healthy marriage.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#98

Post by 35636 »

davidu wrote: post #95
jdietrich wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. I personally know of at least two marriages that ended in divorce for reasons entirely unrelated to the quality of the relationship - one or both parties had a mid-life crisis, tried to reinvent themselves to assuage their existential angst, divorced, utterly alienated their partner in the process and ended up bitterly regretting it. Deciding to divorce doesn't mean that your marriage is bad, it just means…

Your first paragraph might have changed my life.

That first paragraph is my life. :*(

Re: Alone Together, Again

#99

Post by JohnBooty »

_debug_ wrote: post #96

> I packed up what was left, put all but necessities into storage. Sold my car. (Not directly related to the article, but) : In the West, is it always the husband that has to leave the house? I once saw a movie in which the husband comes home and discovers that he being offered a divorce, and the wife says, "Leave my home". She was a stay-at-home wife, and he was working. I found it odd that she refers to it "my home…

It's not a norm, exactly.

If you own the house together, you can't force the other person to leave (unless it's a matter of safety and you involve the police.)

As long as things aren't TOO nasty, couples usually figure something out so that nobody goes homeless. If your wife was a stay-at-home wife with no income, and no place to go, you might let her stay in the house.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#100

Post by jacalata »

_debug_ wrote: post #96

> I packed up what was left, put all but necessities into storage. Sold my car. (Not directly related to the article, but) : In the West, is it always the husband that has to leave the house? I once saw a movie in which the husband comes home and discovers that he being offered a divorce, and the wife says, "Leave my home". She was a stay-at-home wife, and he was working. I found it odd that she refers to it "my home…

He says near the beginning that they were planning to move and the house was already on the market - both of them had to leave the house. It is not always true that the husband has to leave the house.

  1. sometimes only one partner could afford the house on their own. It 
  makes sense for them to be the one that stays.
  2. if there are children, then where possible it can make life easier on 
  them if the parent who gets custody stays in the house 
  so the children don't have to move. This is more frequently the mother.
  3. if the divorce is seen as one person's "fault" then they are expected 
  to take on most of the inconvenience, which includes moving out.
  4. depending on your state and any pre-nuptial agreements and niche 
  circumstances like living in a house owned by the parents of one person, 
  sometimes the house straight up belongs to one member of the couple and
  they get to stay there.
/edit formatting wtf?
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