Guys, I studied in Moscow Institute of Pysics and technology, top technical university in the former USSR - I had in my class people who won International Olympiads in physics, math, chemistry, computer science. Those problems are average or below - you could meet them on math entrance exams to economics specialization. Problems are of the level of district\city math olympiads. I'm sure that jewish people as well as any other applicants with good math background solved them without big problems.
Jewish Problems
61–70 of 74 posts
Re: Jewish Problems
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly does that have to do with math or intolerance?
Actually, nothing. I just posted it because I am in shock after reading it. Feel free to downvote, or, I'll just delete it. Are you one of the "nearly one third"? EDIT: To be fair though, it does have a Jewish connection - cattle trains?
No, I'm not of the "nearly one third". I think the privacy implications of the current TSA procedures are not anywhere near the most problematic privacy issues in our society, but an escalation of that type would be beyond what I would accept.
I am, however, Jewish, and was originally a math major in college, so I do have a particular interest in this story and would appreciate it if the conversation could stay on topic.
The "cattle train" connection is pretty contrived. One is voluntary travel, the other involuntary. One is certainly a breech of dignity, rationality, and privacy, but the other was often deadly, and is at a completely different level of dehumanization.
Re: Jewish Problems
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unnecessary bashing. The OP singled Jews out, which framed this discussion mostly around Jews. Prejudice against Jews is called anti semitism. There's really nothing to see here, nobody implied that there was no discrimination against other groups.
Well in the first place framing this discussion mostly around jews is precisely the problem. Don't you understand why it is offensive? The same way it's offensive when my jewish relatives claim the Nazi genocide was the worst catastrophe in all history , conveniently forgetting the Cultural Revolution, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Armenian Genocide etc etc So I don't like the use of the word "anti-semitism" in t…
Sorry, I don't see the offense in framing a discussion around one instance of something. Don't get me wrong, if someone claims to be fighting for a general cause and then repeatedly talks about one instance, that's wrong. But I really don't see a problem with someone offering a story about one instance. At no point did the OP imply that there was no discrimination against other groups.
Claiming that the Holocaust (I'm guessing you don't like that word either) was the worst catastrophe in all of history is a different matter. Now you're dealing with a statement of fact that should at least in theory be either 'right' or 'wrong'. In practice though, I don't think it makes any sense to split hairs around wether it was the 'worst' catastrophe in human history. Who cares, it was pretty damn bad. It's hard to see why you would be offended - there's plenty of defensible views of the word 'catastrophe' that could make the holocaust the 'worst' catastrophe, and if by some other reasonable view of 'catastrophe' the holocaust only comes in at number 7, why would you view it as offensive if someone disagreed?
Same goes for your insistence on the right way to call 'prejudice against jews', where you also manage to find offense. Any mainstream dictionary will define anti semitism as something around discrimination or prejudice against Jews, which would make it's use in this discussion 100% legitimate.
Perhaps you could enlighten us - what exactly is the problem with Jews talking about ways in which they were hurt as a group in the past?
Re: Jewish Problems
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
The basic problem here is that Russia is blatantly, horrifically racist in general. I'm sharing an apartment with a Russian Jew who shows no outward signs of Jewish practice or culture, but whose father nonetheless had to live a double-life between Russia and America just because he was descended from Jewish stock . That's plainly racial antisemitism and every bit deserving of the word.
Agreed. Are you clear that "anti-semitism" carries some meaning other than "prejudice against jews"? So if you use it to mean "prejudice against jews" it is a euphemism . I can give you the history of the term if you like.
It's hard to look into your head and understand what exactly anti-semitism means to you. For anti-semitism to qualify as a euphemism, we'd have to establish that:
1. It actually has some substantial meaning outside of 'prejudice/discrimination against jews' 2. It is offensive beyond the offence that one might take from being accused of prejudice/discrimination against jews
As for (1), here's some dictionary definitions:
Merriam-Webste: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group Collins: prejudice or hostility towards Jews Cambridge: the strong dislike or cruel and unfair treatment of Jewish people
I'm not clear on what sort of historial narrative you could provide that would 'load' this term with substantial additional meaning and offense, but it would have to be very convincing.
Re: Jewish Problems
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Principally yes, but I'd disagree on essence. Say you have a minority that's 1% of the population, and unhindered it would also make up 1% of enrollments. If you don't allow that minority to enroll, you're increasing the acceptance chance of a majority group member by just over 1%, while decreasing the acceptance chance of the minority member by 100%. The correct way to describe this is then most definitely discrimin…
Actually Jews were about 1% of Soviet Union population and 5%-10% of University students. If Jews were only 1% of student population it would not be an issue. I went to mathematical magnet school (best math school in 5M+ city) and easily 30%-50% of students had Jewish roots. Essentially it was more difficult for Jews to get into university, neutral for Russians, easier for Tatars and some other minorities and extreme…
Thanks. I assumed that Jews would be overrepresented amongst students, but opted for making a more general point.
Re: Jewish Problems
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
You actually can't see the difference between religious law being used to discriminate among applicants to a private, parochial, religious K-12 school and discrimination at a public, state-funded institution based on inescapable racial identities recorded by the government at birth?
If you've been subject to the discrimination it probably feels the same. public/private whatever you call them, they are all just groups of people, and exclusionary judgment based on a couple generations of dna, well I think THAT should be reserved for haShem only. Live by the sword die by the sword, reciprocity, lex talionis, karma, ... almost always catches up.
I think you shouldn't go around referring to Hashem when you blatantly don't know His laws. Jews face judgment, not karma.
Re: Jewish Problems
#67Number 17 doesn't look to be extraordinary, it actually was commonly given in Moscow State University (on math and computer science departments) until recently, when oral examinations were removed altogether. In general such discrimination against Jews in Moscow State University was commonplace until the beginning of 1990s, and is gone since then.
Until 1989, to be precise.
Incidentally, during Perestroika the society was changing at such a high rate that what was hard to imagine just three months before was becoming routine. Now looking back 20+ years it is so difficult to reconstruct the timeline.
Re: Jewish Problems
#68Guys, I studied in Moscow Institute of Pysics and technology, top technical university in the former USSR - I had in my class people who won International Olympiads in physics, math, chemistry, computer science. Those problems are average or below - you could meet them on math entrance exams to economics specialization. Problems are of the level of district\city math olympiads. I'm sure that jewish people as well as…
I see. Please take a look at a partial collection of references at
http://kerosinka.livejournal.com/1633.html -- it contains memoirs, discussions, and some bibliography.
Re: Jewish Problems
#69Number 17 doesn't look to be extraordinary, it actually was commonly given in Moscow State University (on math and computer science departments) until recently, when oral examinations were removed altogether. In general such discrimination against Jews in Moscow State University was commonplace until the beginning of 1990s, and is gone since then.
Until 1989, to be precise. Incidentally, during Perestroika the society was changing at such a high rate that what was hard to imagine just three months before was becoming routine. Now looking back 20+ years it is so difficult to reconstruct the timeline.
Well, I know when Perestroika started, but I gave it a bit of a margin, since I can't say for sure when precisely it affected this discrimination. It's known to be gone for sure in the 1990s. Could be, it started in 1989.
Re: Jewish Problems
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. Are you clear that "anti-semitism" carries some meaning other than "prejudice against jews"? So if you use it to mean "prejudice against jews" it is a euphemism . I can give you the history of the term if you like.
It's hard to look into your head and understand what exactly anti-semitism means to you. For anti-semitism to qualify as a euphemism, we'd have to establish that: 1. It actually has some substantial meaning outside of 'prejudice/discrimination against jews' 2. It is offensive beyond the offence that one might take from being accused of prejudice/discrimination against jews As for (1), here's some dictionary definitio…
No, your criteria are bogus.
We simply have to establish that it is not literal usage.
Calling someone anti-semitic when you mean prejudiced is euphemistic in exactly the same way it is euphemistic to call someone a Nazi instead when you mean prejudiced. This cannot be literal unless said person is a member of the NSDAP.
Which is almost never the case because the NSDAP hasn't existed or had any members since 1945. In fact, "anti-semite" is approximately a synonym for "Nazi", though it is in fact an older term.
The term "anti-semite" was invented by 19th century German racist theorists to describe themselves, based on their social-Darwinistic style theory of race war. (This is also why your dictionary definitions are wrong. Look it up.)
The term strictly cannot apply to anyone who does not buy into 19th century race war theory.
For example, it is strictly a nonsense to call the Spanish Inquisition (or anything else before the 19th century) "anti-semitic".
It is also highly erm, dubious, to call a Russian communist believer in Marxism an "anti-semite".
The correct term is "judeophobe".
You should call someone prejudiced against jews "judeophobic", not "anti-semitic", unless (for example) he is wearing a Gestapo uniform.
The same way you call someone prejudiced against blacks a "racist", not a "White Supremacist", unless he is wearing a Klan uniform.
It was actually shmerl and not me who was getting all hissy about euphemism; I was merely calling him (her?) on his bullshit.
I realize that common usage may be sloppier which is why I did tag my post as being pedantic. I am disinclined to continue posting on this topic.