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U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

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Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#31
post #26
post #3

All it took was $4 gas. All the Saudis have to do is drop their price to the point where gas is $2.50 again and suddenly all the US companies go under in 12 months. But think how much we'll save by having less than 10k troops in the middle-east someday.

Our increased production of oil is due to the new technology of fracking (fracturing the ground to get oil out of it). The situation is certainly not "We could have been fracking 15 years ago, but we didn't feel like it because Saudi gas was cheap". The energy sector is subject to the same process of technological advance that any other industry is. We came up with a new way to get oil out of the ground and figured o…

Even if you ignore all the externalities, hydro-fracking is still much more expensive than traditional shallow well land drilling operations, and it requires higher oil prices to sustain them. The 8 massive oil fields in Saudi Arabia (as well as many of those in Venezuela) fall into the "easy oil" category.

It's true that technology has improved, but it's likely that with more price pressure to improve the technology, these innovations would have come sooner. In addition, fracking is more work, period. It requires more energy than traditional drilling, and while this can be incrementally improved, it's fundamentally a much more energy intensive process that can't just be "optimized away."

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#32

Thee article seems to skip pretty quickly over what, to me, is the important point: >Will transform the U.S. into the largest producer for about five years starting in 2020 So the us is going to start pulling it's oil out of the ground a lot faster. And then it's going to run out of oil. I think it might be better to just keep buying from the Saudis and keep a little bit in the ground.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#33
As other commenters have pointed out, the US only overtakes SA for a few years before falling behind again:

"By around 2020, the United States is projected to become the largest global oil producer (overtaking Saudi Arabia until the mid-2020s)"

So maybe that part of the story is overblown. But perhaps more interesting is that the US will supposedly become a net exporter shortly thereafter:

"The result is a continued fall in US oil imports, to the extent that North America becomes a net oil exporter around 2030."

Source: IEA World Energy Outlook 2012 - Executive Summary http://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication... [PDF]

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#34

Thee article seems to skip pretty quickly over what, to me, is the important point: >Will transform the U.S. into the largest producer for about five years starting in 2020 So the us is going to start pulling it's oil out of the ground a lot faster. And then it's going to run out of oil. I think it might be better to just keep buying from the Saudis and keep a little bit in the ground.

Norway is highly regarded for it's approach to limited oil exploration: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/09/06/140110346/how-to-a...

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#35
post #14

I think stopping the destruction of our planet's climate is more important than becoming oil independent and having cheap petroleum, personally. This is troubling news to me, I was hoping that peak oil would start people down the track of dealing with these problems.

People are on track to deal with these problems (or at least are attempting to be). There are hybrid cars all over the place now, Tesla Motors is doing well as a company and there is a ton of research going into clean energy. These are just extremely difficult problems to deal with. In the meantime, the country can't just let society fail as a whole. The whole world would descend into chaos and war. The US has to do…

$4 a gallon is peanuts. Price of gas in Rome, Italy was 1.87 euro per litre when I was there in July. Per litre, not gallon!

So people get around town on little mopeds, motorbikes, small cars and a lot of SMART cars around as well. I agree there is a lot of forward momentum with hybrid/electric cars in terms on technological advancement, but the uptake in the US is abysmal. Just because you drive an electric car does not mean there is no CO2, that electricity needs to be generated from somewhere and unless that source is renewable energy then you are back to square one. But it's not just cars you need to think about: generation of electricity, airplanes, ships, cheap exports from the rest of the world... I remember reding a study a few years ago stating that shipping outputs a lot more CO2 than air travel. Also, ships use the cheapest, nastiest, left over fuel from the refinement process so ends up throwing our more CO2. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/mar/03/travelsenv...

I agree the US probably feels like it has to do something, but constantly patching over the cracks is never really going to fix the problem.

It can't allow itself to become wholly dependent on oil produced by enemies of the state in an inherently unstable region ran by crazy dictators and terrorists.

Yes. Thanks for the insightful comments. I'll be sure to vote you in for president when you run for election.

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#36

Thee article seems to skip pretty quickly over what, to me, is the important point: >Will transform the U.S. into the largest producer for about five years starting in 2020 So the us is going to start pulling it's oil out of the ground a lot faster. And then it's going to run out of oil. I think it might be better to just keep buying from the Saudis and keep a little bit in the ground.

I always come back to this point as well. Buy till there is no more, use nothing till everyone has ran out.

Invest a little over a lot of time versus a lot in a little time since like the winner to me.

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#37

Thee article seems to skip pretty quickly over what, to me, is the important point: >Will transform the U.S. into the largest producer for about five years starting in 2020 So the us is going to start pulling it's oil out of the ground a lot faster. And then it's going to run out of oil. I think it might be better to just keep buying from the Saudis and keep a little bit in the ground.

"So the us is going to start pulling it's oil out of the ground a lot faster. And then it's going to run out of oil."

This does not appear to be an entirely accurate conclusion, according to the article. For example, the article explains that:

"The desert kingdom is due to become the biggest producer again by 2030, pumping 11.4 million barrels a day versus 10.2 million in the U.S."

That said, if the numbers and projections are accurate, then the U.S. will still be producing, but the output will be lower, largely because of changes in the sources of energy:

"'In the United States, low prices and abundant supply see gas overtake oil around 2030 to become the largest fuel in the energy mix,' according to the report, written by a team of researchers led by Birol."

On the topic of running out of oil, I have always wondered (just a theory for discussion here): maybe oil will never physically run out, but rather what will happen is that once all of the easily-accessible supplies have been expended, it will simply become so cost-prohibitive to extract that we will eventually be forced to change and adapt. Hopefully we will change sooner than later. (Also, when I say "we", I mean all of us as humans, not a specific country).

Edit: Thanks for responding roc and checker. You gave me a further reading point (i.e., peak oil).

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're a supporter of fracking then, right?

I interpreted the opposite; that (s)he is opposed to anything that makes fuel prices cheaper. This is the viewpoint that I personally hold. I would like fuel prices to go up and match the rest of the world as that would create a huge push towards much more efficient transportation technologies. Of course it isn't that black and white as prices of commodities would increase, possibly decrease sales, etc, but it is an…

Let me make my point more clearly. If CO2 emissions are such a huge threat to the world then it makes the most sense to push for fracking in the short term because switching to natural gas over kerosene/gasoline and especially over coal reduces carbon emissions substantially. If a hybrid compact car makes sense from an environmental standpoint then shifting hydrocarbon usage to natural gas makes as much if not more sense.

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#39

If for some reason, coal to oil (synfuel or syncrude) were to be ramped up, it could be quite astounding. There are only trial runs at this point, however. Germany during the WWII era was able to produce 75% of their oil needs due to synfuels. Once the plants were bombed or disrupted, Germany ran out of fuel and lost the war.

Not only trial runs. See this http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/south-afri... . This is a faciltiy that works, operated by Sasol. They plan to build a 80k barrel/day facility in China.

PS. noteworthy in the article is the mentioning of Obama, who was pushing for such a coal-to-oil technology to be brought to US.

Re: U.S. Oil Output to Overtake Saudi Arabia’s by 2020

#40
post #26
post #3

All it took was $4 gas. All the Saudis have to do is drop their price to the point where gas is $2.50 again and suddenly all the US companies go under in 12 months. But think how much we'll save by having less than 10k troops in the middle-east someday.

Our increased production of oil is due to the new technology of fracking (fracturing the ground to get oil out of it). The situation is certainly not "We could have been fracking 15 years ago, but we didn't feel like it because Saudi gas was cheap". The energy sector is subject to the same process of technological advance that any other industry is. We came up with a new way to get oil out of the ground and figured o…

To be fair: oil being fungible means that it doesn't much matter who gets Iraqi production or the direct profits from it. So long as that oil can be produced and sold by a regime not under international sanctions, it will increase market supply thus lowering price and giving the market a little more wiggle room to absorb supply shocks.

Which are goals much more in-line with American defense strategy in the region as a whole.

So while the view of our having invaded Iraq to steal their oil remains naive, it's hard to argue that the US receives no benefits from that oil being produced by a non-sanctioned (non-Saddam) regime.

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