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US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

theguardian.com

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Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#91

Post by magicalhippo »

somat wrote: post #57
bobtheman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited Norway and was blown away by the price of alcohol. Given that the sun only comes out for a fraction of an hour in winter I struggled to believe it. At a local bar... (I think I was in trondheim?) I asked how they afforded booze? (it worked out to 15$ USD per pint), "We don't, but we do it anyways"

Why is it so expensive? High vice taxes?

Yes. Wine with between 10-15% alcohol by volume[1] currently has a tax of 5,41 NOK per percent ABV per liter. So a typical 0.75 liter bottle of 12% ABV wine gets a tax of 12*0.75 = 53.19 NOK, or about $5.6 / €4.8.

For booze above 22% ABV the tax is currently 9.23 NOK. So a 0.7 liter bottle of 40% ABV Whiskey or similar would get 258 NOK or $27 / €23 in tax.

And on top of that comes the usual 25% VAT, and high wages to our bartenders etc.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#92

Post by RealityVoid »

ihalip wrote: post #35
RealityVoid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, home distilled spirits are everywhere in Romania. I drank many many times home distilled spirits. They are not that dangerous.

How's your eyesight?

Not great, but I'm not blind.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#93

Post by inglor_cz »

somenameforme wrote: post #72
somat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so expensive? High vice taxes?

Prices tend to correlate strongly with wages and wages are very high in Norway for all work, so they also have some of the highest prices on basically everything. Another lol example is a Big Mac combo meal in Oslo - you're looking at around $20.

Scandinavian countries have very specific alcohol policies, though, very restrictionist, and the tax is part of this.

This is not just question of "more expensive country, more expensive stuff". Switzerland or Luxembourg are quite expensive, but you will buy affordable and good Italian/Spanish/French wine there, because these countries don't impose anywhere near as much taxation on wine.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#94

Post by magicalhippo »

somenameforme wrote: post #72
somat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so expensive? High vice taxes?

Prices tend to correlate strongly with wages and wages are very high in Norway for all work, so they also have some of the highest prices on basically everything. Another lol example is a Big Mac combo meal in Oslo - you're looking at around $20.

A large Bic Mac meal with plain fries and soda is 123 NOK or $12.91, and a large double Quarter pounder menu is 168 NOK or $17.63.

It's actually relatively cheap right now, I expect a price hike soon given how much grocery prices have increased.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#95

Post by Broken_Hippo »

fzeindl wrote: post #5

In Norway alcohol is very expensive, so many people distill at home illegally. Every travel guide tells you to not accept home-distilled drinks, since they can be poisonous.

Distilling at home was fairly traditional long before high alcohol prices. Sure, high prices encourages some folks and helps ensure there is space for a black market. But technically, the high prices didn't cause distilling.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#96

Post by inglor_cz »

ihalip wrote: post #35
RealityVoid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, home distilled spirits are everywhere in Romania. I drank many many times home distilled spirits. They are not that dangerous.

How's your eyesight?

The eastern part of Czechia (Moravia) plus Slovakia will distill anything that grows, too, and methanol poisonings are almost non-existent here. Don't underestimate centuries of tradition and know-how.

The only exception was a methanol affair 15 years ago, but that had nothing to do with home distillation. In that particular case, two bozos inspired by a badly understood Wikipedia article bought and mixed enormous amounts of industrial methanol with ethanol and sold the resulting mixture on the black market, killing dozens of people and triggering a temporary prohibition as the authorities scrambled to find all the poisoned booze.

They are now both serving life.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#97

Post by RealityVoid »

lostlogin wrote: post #87
RealityVoid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, home distilled spirits are everywhere in Romania. I drank many many times home distilled spirits. They are not that dangerous.

This reads as authenticity Eastern European. A colleague from the region explained to me that if the booze is cheap, you just make sure you drink plenty of good booze too. Blocks the metabolic pathway.

Yes, that is true. But almost no one really does this, cutting the head is what is usually done and I have never heard of someone poisoning themselves with homemade țuică. It's fine, really. It seems USians are convinced homemade hooch will blind you without having absolutely no personal experience with it.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#98

Post by Broken_Hippo »

bobtheman wrote: post #8
fzeindl wrote: post #5

In Norway alcohol is very expensive, so many people distill at home illegally. Every travel guide tells you to not accept home-distilled drinks, since they can be poisonous.

I visited Norway and was blown away by the price of alcohol. Given that the sun only comes out for a fraction of an hour in winter I struggled to believe it. At a local bar... (I think I was in trondheim?) I asked how they afforded booze? (it worked out to 15$ USD per pint), "We don't, but we do it anyways"

The real answer: Folks rarely get very drunk at the bar. Folks have drinks at home, go to the bar and drink modestly, and drink after.

And I'll let you know that my shortest days are 4.5 hours long (with weak sunlight!). Oslo has slighly longer days still.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#99

Post by kijin »

rkomorn wrote: post #83
dnnddidiej wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I didn't realise methanol had the same psychological effect. I thought it was just tasteless poison.

I've never tasted it but from what I remember from high school chemistry class, it certainly smelled close enough to other alcohols, so I assume it would taste close enough as well. TBH, I also had to do my own bit of googling because I barely drink alcohol to begin with, but it does look like "at the start", it's not very distinguishable from ethanol in taste and in effect.

If ethanol and methanol were readily distinguishable by taste, much fewer people would have died or gone blind drinking moonshine.

Whatever subtle differences exist between them are probably unnoticeable to people who are already drunk, not to mention drinking cocktails with all sorts of other flavors mixed in.

Re: US appeals court declares 158-year-old home distilling ban unconstitutional

#100

Post by mrob »

akersten wrote: post #40
mattmaroon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a myth. I’ll have to see if I can find the papers I read but mass spectrometry has shown that methanol comes out throughout the entire process. The idea that things come out at their boiling temperature is a drastic oversimplification. Methanol is really only present in significant amounts in fruit mashes because it comes from fermentation of pectin. Grain or sugar-derived alcohol barely has any at a…

> This is actually a myth. I’ll have to see if I can find the papers I read but mass spectrometry has shown that methanol comes out throughout the entire process. The idea that things come out at their boiling temperature is a drastic oversimplification. Please do find those papers! They may be describing a radical new chemistry that I'm not familiar with. To be clear - methanol boils at 64C and ethanol boils at 78C.…

>They may be describing a radical new chemistry that I'm not familiar with.

It's probably pot still vs. reflux still. Chemists use fractionating columns to get better separation. Home distillers won't necessarily do so, so official advice has to assume they will not.

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