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447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

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51–60 of 169 posts

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#51
The concept is interesting, but I'm getting a lot of red flags from this - there's no experimental data or proof-of-concept work at all, which makes this feel more like a blue-sky "Look what we could do if we could arrange atoms however we wanted!" pipe dream in the Drexlerian mode. Something about the writing style's also pinging my LLM radar, which while not disqualifying in-and-of-itself is very discouraging in combination with the other funkiness. The chemistry and manufacturability strike me as questionable in particular, and I'm not convinced the physics of reading and writing are nearly as clean as the author seems to think.

(I'm also unclear how the bit is supposed to actually flip under the applied electric charge without the fluorine and carbon having to pass through each other.)

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#52
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you need to build a demo of Tier 2? I am guessing if you can do that then you can get an investor.

Tier 2 requires near-field infrared optics at sub-10 nm resolution — that's active research in several groups but not commercially available yet. The immediate next step is Tier 1: one C-AFM image proving the read, one voltage pulse proving the write. That's $300 in materials and access to an AFM. Already in progress with a collaborator.

at that level (Tier 2) we're basically talking plasmonics, right? optics + antenna theory for the uninitiated. SPR, quantum plasmonics, active nanophotonics.. that's some advance shit from the (hopefully near) future, man. This is mostly in semiconductor research now, right? maybe biology?

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#53
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people do not need to worry about material possessions as much as some others because of the random birth wealth lottery. Then they can pursue interests in less goal driven ways than it would otherwise seem wise

In many European counties it's easily feasible to just study all your life while working ~20 hours / week. I won no lottery but had no issue spending a decade of my life pursuing interests at universities while working 20-30 / hours a week in a comfortable software dev job. If I'm paying for "free" education with my tax euros, I might as well use it.

There are lots of stipends etc. If you don't plan to have kids, and you don't care about luxuries, you will have healthy food and a roof and not be thinking about money. Probably the decision is to forgo luxuries and child raising, and hope you don't need to help a sick relative etc. if you want do to this forever. But it is not impossible in STEM.

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#54
post #44

This is a pipe dream and I’m almost tempted to say a fever dream. The chemistry part seems somewhat sound, even though that’s outside of my field of expertise. But the entire readout process is questionable, and has clear signs of heavy AI writing. The AFM mechanism described as “tier 1” (very strong LLMism, btw) is somewhat optimistic but realistic. The fields needed are large compared to usual values in solid state…

[deleted]

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#56
post #11

Perhaps title had a typo? fluorographane -> Fluorographene Can't find a single page about fluorographane https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=fluorographane&t... But this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorographene

Fluorographane: Synthesis and Properties (pdf)https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/getauthorversionpdf/C4CC0884...

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#57
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people do not need to worry about material possessions as much as some others because of the random birth wealth lottery. Then they can pursue interests in less goal driven ways than it would otherwise seem wise

In many European counties it's easily feasible to just study all your life while working ~20 hours / week. I won no lottery but had no issue spending a decade of my life pursuing interests at universities while working 20-30 / hours a week in a comfortable software dev job. If I'm paying for "free" education with my tax euros, I might as well use it.

That works as long as you don’t expect to graduate: in many EU nations, higher education students are required to complete at least 60 ECTS credits per year, or lose their study right / enrollment.

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tier 2 requires near-field infrared optics at sub-10 nm resolution — that's active research in several groups but not commercially available yet. The immediate next step is Tier 1: one C-AFM image proving the read, one voltage pulse proving the write. That's $300 in materials and access to an AFM. Already in progress with a collaborator.

at that level (Tier 2) we're basically talking plasmonics, right? optics + antenna theory for the uninitiated. SPR, quantum plasmonics, active nanophotonics.. that's some advance shit from the (hopefully near) future, man. This is mostly in semiconductor research now, right? maybe biology?

If you could do that at a high writing rate, could it be used for making ICs?

Re: 447 TB/cm² at zero retention energy – atomic-scale memory on fluorographane

#60
Every year or so there's a new article about some new spectacular storage medium. Crystals, graphene, lasers, quartz, holograms, whatever. It never materializes.

Demonstrating this stuff is possible isn't the hard part, it seems. Productionizing it is. You have to have exceedingly fast read and write speeds: who cares if it can store an exabyte if it takes all month to read it, or if you produce data faster than you can write it? It has to be durable under adverse conditions. It has to be practical to manufacture the medium and the drives. You probably don't want to have to need a separate device to read and a device to write. By the time most of these problems are worked out, most of these technologies aren't a whole lot better than existing tech.

Stick this on the "Wouldn't it be nice if graphene..." pile.

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