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The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

aphyr.com

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Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#91

I've been enjoying these articles by 'aphyr and I think they raise important points. Primarily though, they read to me as polemics of a curiously American nature. The pattern goes something like this: - this development is bad - companies will be unrestrained in their use of this development - there will be no rules so they can do whatever they want - we are all fucked as a result But then...propose that we make some…

I mean, whenever I read these types of articles and responses, my reaction is almost always the same: what is this ideal world people are hoping for?

The future of everything is lies... sure, well so was the past, what's your point?

When we say "snake oil salesmen" we literally had people selling these mineral oils, fraudulently, for a century. People yearn for a time when there wasn't an antagonistic relationship between buyer and seller, but it has never existed. There is only one way have that relationship, and it's by having a personal -- repeatable -- relationship with your seller, and that's usually expensive, even if that expense is not monetary. It just the game theory of repeated games.

The easiest way to establish this behavior is to be a regular at a bar while being a good patron that creates a positive experience for everyone else. There are multiple places I frequent where I have no doubt in my mind that if there was an emergency, they might ask me to help out in some way because I'm trustworthy. And they could hand me an envelope of money, knowing I'd not steal it, because it's not worth it for me to take a bit of money and ruin my welcome at this place.

That's not going to happen with online sellers, and it's not going to happen with most corporations. The promise was always "save money through economies of scale, such that you still win even though there is no relationship." For the most part, that's proven true. But as everything has been outsourced to China, and anyone can make a basic version of everything, we're running up against the limits of those benefits. And I truly believe that brands are going to start mattering a lot more going forward for marketplaces.

Shop at Costco because they care about their customers. In other areas where companies don't, you're going to have to do the legwork to find out who is going to treat you right. That sucks, and it'll probably be more expensive, but that's the antagonistic relationship that buyers and sellers have naturally. Regulation helps, yes, but it's not some cure all. The expectation that you can just go with the person with the lowest price and get quality services is not a thing that's every existed.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#92
post #8

Everything that is old is new again. Payment processing, is better than it was in 2000, but still not good. Micropayments: this is obnoxiously expensive to do. Discovery, and discoverability: again here we have better but not good solutions (and many of the ones that were once good are enshitified). Pricing: this is a problem everywhere, and frankly we need the law to change in a way that is pro consumer. Publishing…

> Good customer service will become a differentiator

This does not matter without antitrust, which is why customer service became bad in the first place. 30 years ago, the low quality of customer service we complain about now simply didn't exist, at any size or professional level of business, and never had.

If a company back then had the customer service of the average company now, or even the average government agency now, people would have suspected that it was a covert front for criminals or spies.

If a company doesn't have to compete, it can cut everything until it only has the ghost of a product and a billing department. You don't boycott monopolies, monopolies boycott you. If three companies put you on a list to not have internet, phone service, a bank account or a credit card, etc., you just can't have them. You've become a European human rights judge.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#93
post #5

So basically more ways of trying to make people buy things, do things, think things than before? I feel like our whole world more and more circulates around manipulation and the absence of truth and discourse. Then again, I do think LLMs are an incredible technological achievement. The issue is not so much what they do or that they exist, but how they are utilized. Right now, they are utilized to further the class di…

> Time to organize around groups and collectives that we know we can trust I’ve had the same thoughts, but if you look deeper, it all circles back to what we already had: (open, transparent) public institutions, society, and government by the people. The foundation wasn't the problem; the environment was. Along the way, social media noise, engagement-optimisation and Kardashian-style "entertainment news" infecting re…

[dead]

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#94
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to tell you this but nobody has ever been in control. To think you can is to think you can unring a bell.

Right, and that's why we all died in a nuclear war.....

The disincentives to nuclear war are glaringly obvious enough that even politicians (and their masters) get it.

AI isn't like that. One problem is that it's rather generally misunderstood at this point. "AI" is not "intelligence". It's intelligence-adjacent, and something like LLMs is part of our psyche...the subconscious facility that allows us to form sentences without really thinking about it.

At any rate, I have to agree with most of the points the blog author brings up.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocked in the UK. “Online safety act”

Is this something you're seeing personally? If so, how do you know it's because of the Online Safety Act? This is a personal blog and it doesn't seem to have any adult content that I can find. The homepage of the site isn't blocked when I check it here: https://www.blocked.org.uk/check

It tells you when you visit.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#96

This is doomerism. Yes, everything will get worse. But everything will also get better. Such is progress. (for every one of these examples of annoyances, I can think of two ways to use AI to get around the annoyance. not clever programmer things, but things an average person who learns to use Codex or Claude Desktop to operate their desktop will know) Most of these annoyances are also things that existed before AI, a…

> Yes, everything will get worse. But everything will also get better. That is not known. Things could easily just get worse, and IMO that is far more likely. Every civilisation has collapsed, ours is clearly in decline, and AI could likely accelerate that decline. I'm not exactly seeing the progress here. AI helps us write some software a bit faster? Doesn't seem revolutionary to me. Is it having any significant imp…

> That is not known. Things could easily just get worse, and IMO that is far more likely. Every civilisation has collapsed, ours is clearly in decline, and AI could likely accelerate that decline.

This is the definition of doomerism. Of all the ways each society has adapted to industrializaion, of all the technologies we've adapted to, and our continued use of all of them despite any negative impacts, you think an LLM is going to end things? An overcomplicated autocomplete?

There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests our society would collapse under AI. An imagination is not evidence. I mean, it's just a tool! Like the car, the telephone, the genetically engineered seed. Humans always freak out when they see something they don't understand. But it turns out there's no tool we have created that we can't control. We're stupid, but we're not idiots.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#97
post #19

have worked closely with customer support teams, can confirm that the goal of any technical improvements that go in front of CS agents is to reduce ticket volume, and thus costs. of course they measure retention and satisfaction but ticket volume is always the big one. chatbots were big for this long before LLMs existed. a fun side effect is that CS is also an early warning system for companies, so when you make it h…

I had a fun experience with my ISP where their chat bot couldn't help me (of course it couldn't, I don't call for "did you try turning it off and on again" problems), so it escalated me to a human agent. Said human agent was very obviously copy-pasting LLM output. I could tell because (1) the responses were nearly identical to what Claude already told me when I asked it before calling and (2) every once in a while I would get an uncharacteristically brief reply, without capitalization or punctuation, in Indian English.

I haven't a had a good experience since AT&T bought my previous ISP and forced me to switch to a different subsidiary.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#98
post #44
post #25

Don't agree with this. LLM when it came out, was perfect as an interface between a system and a normal human. So many people call customer support for issues they could in theory fix themselves. If that LLM system can understand me well enough, its an okay interface. In worst case you have to escalate anyway. My mum actually told me that she talked to some AI. And yes normal systems are also not correct often enough.…

> My mum actually told me that she talked to some AI. You have no argument here. Make an argument then we can talk. Right now it’s going in circles.

I added talking points like the one were i state that people call support just to fix issues they could fix themselves.

My point with my mum should imply that it was successful but for sure at least you are pointing something out and now we can talk about it: My mum talked to an AI and it helped her.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#99

I've been enjoying these articles by 'aphyr and I think they raise important points. Primarily though, they read to me as polemics of a curiously American nature. The pattern goes something like this: - this development is bad - companies will be unrestrained in their use of this development - there will be no rules so they can do whatever they want - we are all fucked as a result But then...propose that we make some…

But then...propose that we make some laws to put rules around this stuff, also known as regulations and everybody goes "whoa hold up hold up hold up...I dunno about that part."

Of course, what those who call for regulation of AI or other nascent technologies are really saying is, "Unqualified and/or biased and/or corrupt and/or dull-witted people should make decisions that affect us all, based on incomplete, misleading or rapidly-evolving information, with the power to enforce them at gunpoint."

And then they wonder why other countries beat their own.

Re: The future of everything is lies, I guess – Part 5: Annoyances

#100

I've been enjoying these articles by 'aphyr and I think they raise important points. Primarily though, they read to me as polemics of a curiously American nature. The pattern goes something like this: - this development is bad - companies will be unrestrained in their use of this development - there will be no rules so they can do whatever they want - we are all fucked as a result But then...propose that we make some…

But then...propose that we make some laws to put rules around this stuff, also known as regulations and everybody goes "whoa hold up hold up hold up...I dunno about that part." Of course, what those who call for regulation of AI or other nascent technologies are really saying is, "Unqualified and/or biased and/or corrupt and/or dull-witted people should make decisions that affect us all, based on incomplete, misleadi…

I'm sorry...wut?
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