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South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

theregister.com

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Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#41

Post by smugma »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #10
Leomuck wrote: post #4

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was…

But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9

In SF, I commonly see homeless people with cell phones

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#42

Post by daveoc64 »

ratorx wrote: post #21
aitchnyu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, was it more than an oppportunistic attack at net neurality?

UK has never had net neutrality, there are many limited data phone plans that include unlimited music/video etc

The UK does have net neutrality, and it's quite strictly regulated by Ofcom, which produces an annual report showing compliance and highlighting any issues it has investigated:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neu...

Things like restrictions on tethering and using a SIM in a router are forbidden.

Unlike most countries, net neutrality has never been a political football in the UK.

Ofcom groups zero rating schemes into three types:

Type one - government and NGO services (always allowed).

Type two - where categories of service (e.g. video or music streaming apps) are zero rated, but any service fitting into the category can apply to be zero rated by the network.

Type three - any other kind of zero rating.

Things like the VOXI Unlimited Social Media packages fit into Type Two, so are expressly permitted.

For the rest, Ofcom assessed the impact on consumers, which is generally low.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#43

Post by SoftTalker »

pixel_popping wrote: post #3
jl6 wrote: post #2

> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire. Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).

I think despite needing money, it can still be considered a right, IDs cost money but you have the right to have them, and I'm pretty sure it means it could extend to government paying for it eventually (depending on your social class I guess).

Something being a right does not mean that it will be provided for you. It simply means the government will not infringe on that.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#44

Post by techsystems »

jl6 wrote: post #2

> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire. Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).

Yes it does, but you probably need a bit of context.

They already have free Wi-Fi in every bus stop, train stations, government buildings, etc. like clocks, thermometers, air quality sensors, etc. The free Wi-Fi is very high quality, where you can watch 4K videos without stutters in most places (1080p for other places).

This is more about basics instead of luxurious/entertainment purposes, where if they run out of data on their contracts, the companies must provide data, albeit slow, still, where government provided Wi-Fi can't reach. 400 kbps is good enough for AI text streams, so it's a policy blend for their recently trending slew of AI policies.

I should also mention that it's a compromise from the telecom companies for recent incidents.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#45

Post by travisjungroth »

SoftTalker wrote: post #43
pixel_popping wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think despite needing money, it can still be considered a right, IDs cost money but you have the right to have them, and I'm pretty sure it means it could extend to government paying for it eventually (depending on your social class I guess).

Something being a right does not mean that it will be provided for you. It simply means the government will not infringe on that.

The provided rights are called positive rights, and the not infringe rights are called negative rights. Freedom of speech is a negative right and a right to legal counsel is a positive right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#46

Post by morkalork »

edent wrote: post #6
Leomuck wrote: post #4

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was…

At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)

This is... Shockingly reasonable. Would be perfect if it included other essential services e.g. domains used for online banking.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#47

Post by Markoff »

edent wrote: post #6
Leomuck wrote: post #4

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was…

At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)

meanwhile Czechia literally BANNED free Wi-Fi in restaurants and other establishments during COVID, so people will spend there less time, I understood the rationale if people already didn't have mobile data in phones anyway

other things Czech gov banned during COVID-19 was singing in public places, no kidding!

And I'm not even going to complain they banned sale of the toys, colored pencils and other items so people will spend less time in the shop, so me and kids could just look at the colored pencils behind the tape because we had to go to shop anyway.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#48

Post by ianm218 »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Seems nice but is actually a terrible move. It's another step towards the presumption that everyone should have a smartphone.

I feel like you are applying a US specific/ western lense to this. In East Asian countries they’ve built lots of infrastructure around that presumption already and are committed to it.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#49

Post by SoftTalker »

travisjungroth wrote: post #45
SoftTalker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something being a right does not mean that it will be provided for you. It simply means the government will not infringe on that.

The provided rights are called positive rights, and the not infringe rights are called negative rights. Freedom of speech is a negative right and a right to legal counsel is a positive right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

Thanks, yes I didn't really think about that distinction. I would say that "positive rights" is a fairly modern concept, for example the right to legal counsel was not originally a positive right, that was something that was determined by a series of court decisions in the mid-20th century. Most rights are still in the "negative" sense, i.e. things that cannot be prohibited or limited, or only narrowly so.

But in this case, a "right" to mobile data is just an entitlement that the people/governemnt decided to provide. The article isn't loading for me but I'm assuming this was not a constitutional change establishing this new specific right.

Re: South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

#50

Post by hamdingers »

daveoc64 wrote: post #42
ratorx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had net neutrality, there are many limited data phone plans that include unlimited music/video etc

The UK does have net neutrality, and it's quite strictly regulated by Ofcom, which produces an annual report showing compliance and highlighting any issues it has investigated: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neu... Things like restrictions on tethering and using a SIM in a router are forbidden. Unlike most countries, net neutrality has never been a political football in the UK. Ofcom groups…

This is not net neutrality, all network traffic is not treated equally.

Ofcom seems to have invented their own definition of net neutrality and placed it on that website, but calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. This is tiered access.

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