Alone Together, Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Alone Together, Again

#71

Post by apgwoz » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 12:47 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #47

pdeuchler wrote: post #12

Thank you so much for posting this Alex. I'm young enough for marriage to seem distant, and my parents are still married, yet more than half of the children I grew up with had divorced parents and I have several separated family members. It's not uncommon for most of the families on a suburb block to be divorced, especially in certain areas (most of my affluent white friends had antagonistically divorced parents, mai…

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

I believe infidelity is the leading cause of divorce in the US. I'm sure the typical money problems also rank high.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#72

Post by apgwoz » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 12:51 PM UTC

jackowayed wrote: post #60

mwetzler wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part of the story stuck out to me. I don't think he's mentioning it just because it's funny. I think he regrets brushing off that warning flag. I could almost feel his pain when he mentioned it. 12% enemy is significant. It means you are misaligned on some things that are important to you. Years ago, when my SO and I calculated our compatibility using OKCupid, there was a way to run a report on items that decrea…

Don't put so much stock in an online dating algorithm. He was just trying to illustrate how perfect everything seemed, how sure of everything he was, until suddenly that stable-seeming foundation fell out from under him. There's no way that in a post that explores the limits of technology, he's actually trying to make some claim that he missed a huge red flag in an online dating algorithm's output, nor that we should…

> Don't put so much stock in an online dating algorithm.

I wouldn't put so much stock in someone like eHarmony, but OkCupid--sure! Those guys use math!

disclaimer: I work for OkCupid Labs.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#73

Post by andyking » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 12:59 PM UTC

mwetzler wrote: post #51

graue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suggestion that OkCupid's algorithms were right all along and that's why the 4-year relationship failed is, if taken seriously, indeed questionable. But I'd assume that remark is more an offhanded joke than anything.

That part of the story stuck out to me. I don't think he's mentioning it just because it's funny. I think he regrets brushing off that warning flag. I could almost feel his pain when he mentioned it. 12% enemy is significant. It means you are misaligned on some things that are important to you. Years ago, when my SO and I calculated our compatibility using OKCupid, there was a way to run a report on items that decrea…

Years ago, when my SO and I calculated our compatibility using OKCupid, there was a way to run a report on items that decreased compatibility. We didn't have many, but it was helpful to talk about the few things we did disagree on. I wonder if they were able to do something similar before their marriage; maybe it would have helped.

We didn't meet on a dating website, but my current partner and I have done pretty much this. We sat down, and talked, and had a very frank, logical discussion of the things we disagree on, to try and weed out any red-flag issues before they became issues. It transpired that politically, we're quite different - but we both think it's pretty boring to be with someone who feels the same as you on every issue, all the time. I think it was good to do that - to talk thoroughly through things in a calm way, before they turn up in a completely unrelated fight.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#74

Post by darklajid » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 1:13 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #47

pdeuchler wrote: post #12

Thank you so much for posting this Alex. I'm young enough for marriage to seem distant, and my parents are still married, yet more than half of the children I grew up with had divorced parents and I have several separated family members. It's not uncommon for most of the families on a suburb block to be divorced, especially in certain areas (most of my affluent white friends had antagonistically divorced parents, mai…

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

Disclaimer: Not from the US, but married (~2 years~) and kid (~2 weeks~):

I don't like marriage, as an institution. I'm married, because I'm quite certain that I want to stay with this person, because of tax benefits and a clearly defined situation for offsprings (from 'parental rights' to banal things like 'last name of the little one').

Without that, I couldn't care less about marriage (yes, my wife knows that pov). I'm not religious, so all the reasons for marriage listed there don't apply. Looking at society I think that - depending on the country/region/culture, I guess - marriage lost its meaning.

You might disagree and think that marriage is still an important concept, but in that case I'd argue that divorce shouldn't be ~that easy~. That doesn't mix in my world. The _only_ value of marriage, subjective of course, is the binding vow to stay with someone, period. Reducing that to "Yeah, 'til death or .. something else" is really nonsense, in absolute terms.

I love my wife, but my signature & vow aren't better than a vow I presented her on a random beach in France, with no witnesses.

Ignoring my impression of the value of marriage: Lots of people around me (and my former self certainly as well) seem to be less tolerant. If it's more and more easy to find a new partner (the original article mentions finding people on craigslist..), why would you invest time and energy in this current relationship, that goes through a hard time? The incentive is lowered: You can find people easily (online, offline), society doesn't really care if you were married before in general (certainly not everywhere, but in the western countries I know that's the case) and getting a divorce is ~easy~ (although, potentially nasty/expensive/etc). Why should you work hard to overcome problems in a relationship where a lot of the initial giddy feeling stuff is gone (substituted with something just as good perhaps, if you're happy. But .. in times of crisis you'll probably forget about that)?

Let's get back to the question, shall we? In a word, in my expectation, the reason for a high rate of divorce is:

Lazyness

Re: Alone Together, Again

#75

Post by liberatus » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 1:40 PM UTC

"It is taking time to make things whole again..."

Try saying: 'It is taking time to make things "feel" whole again.'

I know it's a small difference, but it provides (imho) a more accurate perspective. Perspective is a lot, if not everything.

Point is, you're already whole, but it takes time to feel it.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#76

Post by precisioncoder » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 1:46 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #47

pdeuchler wrote: post #12

Thank you so much for posting this Alex. I'm young enough for marriage to seem distant, and my parents are still married, yet more than half of the children I grew up with had divorced parents and I have several separated family members. It's not uncommon for most of the families on a suburb block to be divorced, especially in certain areas (most of my affluent white friends had antagonistically divorced parents, mai…

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

Basically it's a culture shift. It used to be men would have goals and women would support them. Now both partners have goals and they often have to choose between their goals and staying together. It's sad when partners have to split but in order to pursue their dreams it is often necessary. Another cause is simply that people change, it would be sad if we stayed the same, hopefully partners can find a way to grow together but if their growth takes them in different directions they may split. A marriage is a partnership, it would be wonderful if they all could last forever but often they were wonderful, they end, and the fact that they ended does not diminish the good they brought to both partners.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#77

Post by beaker52 » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 2:16 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

I too have found great satisfaction with being content with things the way which they are.

I use a train of thought along the lines of: All of my suffering comes from a desire to be somewhere I'm not.

Consider a captive. Imagine the isolation and abuse that goes along with a typical scenario of being held captive. Much like an animal put into captivity, if the captive accepts his/her life situation (of being in captivity, abuse and all) he/she does not suffer from it, it is simply his/her way of life.

Whether I like it or not, I'm a captive of life. That's not to say I shouldn't or can't influence it, of course I can, but I cannot make it what it is not. I can guide my life where I think it needs to go but I should have no expectations and welcome whatever I find, oasis and monsters alike, with a smile, curiosity and affection. It lets me be content, whatever the weather.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#78

Post by theorique » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

fferen wrote: post #21

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

This is basically how I live my life. Throughout high school and freshman year college (I'm 19) I was always so concerned about things that were utterly unimportant in hindsight, like not offending people, making friends, not being a shut-in (I've always been an introvert). I've found that simply not caring about stuff has made the biggest improvement in my life satisfaction. For example, I tried to make friends in t…

I'm a fan of this book ... partly because of the philosophy and partly because of the profanity: thefuckitlife.com

(no commercial interest)

Re: Alone Together, Again

#79

Post by drharris » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 3:00 PM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #57

kamaal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

If you ask me (married 23 years), it's because people get married for the wrong reasons. They get married because society expects them to get married, nobody tells them that spending a lot of time with another human being is really, really hard (in this modern world where both partners are equal partners with full rights), and when - not if - things go wrong, they think "the marriage" is falling apart. So it does. My…

This is exactly it. I've only been married 4 years, so I'm only speaking with a little experience, but when the love, passion, lust, etc. disappears, what is left? In the end, commitment is all that keeps it together. We happen to both be committed, and both have good examples in our parents (neither divorced, which is rare). We now have children, which helps us keep the proper focus. In the end, keeping a marriage together has more to do with being able to put your personal interests aside for large chunks of time (not all the time, just sometimes). As you said, the bad times can be bad, but the good times can equally be good. If we weren't both equally committed, I can see how things can unravel. Sometimes the fault is with both parties, often it's because one person is not as committed. The key is to find someone that is equal in all that.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#80

Post by hilko » Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 3:33 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

This issue has been on my mind quite a bit recently. There's significant parts of my life that are not going great, but I have nobody to blame for that other than myself, and with some willpower those areas will improve.

Other than that, though, my life seems like a ridiculous streak of luck. I could go into detail, but suffice to say that serendipity is a running theme.

Now of course part of it is coming from a (relatively) stable family, being white and educated. I am aware of that.

But compared to others just like me, on paper anyways, I still have a ridiculously good life.

I truly believe a lot of that has to do with expectations, and the perspective you choose to have. I don't think it has much to do with personality. By nature I worry a lot, and I tend to be depressed and pessimistic.

For me, it's the difference between reacting and responding. When I 'react', it is a passive/automatic action following some event, some intrusion, something unexpected. I was not prepared for this event, so my reaction is often not optimal, in hindsight.

When I respond, the actual responds might be equally 'automatic', but it is based on a more generic kind of preparation, and leads to better results. In hindsight, it seems like I knew what was going to happen.

I have, through circumstance, spent most of my life with a lot of uncertainty, so I naturally developed skills that allow me to 'respond'. And as a result, many good things came about because I 'responded' correctly, based on some trained principle or perspective. And many bad things didn't impact me as much, because I feel like most of my life is improvisation anyways.