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Code is run more than read (2023)

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Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#81

Post by sqircles »

maury91 wrote: post #59
kerblang wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try replacing the battery. Seems accessible enough at first, but ingenious engineering has made batteries the modern rubik's cube of auto maintenance.

I have a 2009 Citroen and the battery is secured with a bolt that is under the battery compartment and to access it you need to go under the car with a very long wrench, who engineered it is a psycho

Had to help a fella replace a battery in what I believe was a Mitsubishi... had to remove the front tire and the wheel well liner first!

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#82

Post by pertymcpert »

a4isms wrote: post #64
Arch-TK wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repair shop owners also don't enjoy work which is unnecessarily difficult. Between rebuilding an engine and disassembling a bumper to replace a lightbulb most mechanics would genuinely rather be doing the lengthy but interesting work of rebuilding an engine than the lengthy and fucking boring task of disassembling a bumper to fix a lightbulb. Moreover, even if a mechanic must charge you stupid amounts of labour cost…

Between rebuilding an engine and disassembling a bumper to replace a lightbulb most mechanics would genuinely rather be doing the lengthy but interesting work of rebuilding an engine than the lengthy and fucking boring task of disassembling a bumper to fix a lightbulb. ChatGPT, write me a 2010-style Hacker News front page essay about how software maintenance is just like automobile maintenance, and why nobody wants l…

Here: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69d96c050078819199750da28ebd2526

I gagged after 2 sentences.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#83

Post by bena »

its_ethan wrote: post #80
bena wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he's using his hypothetical to illustrate the point that: even while some benefits may exist, there are other considerations besides one measure of efficiency. That's the point you're not getting. People get your point. They're just pointing out that sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And for something that needs to be regularly accessed, it's better for it to be accessible than strictly optimal. And du…

> there are other considerations besides one measure of efficiency Bruh that's literally what I was saying? Instead of how efficiently can you replace a filter in an engine, another benefit might exist instead. Said another way, maybe the "juice" gained from redesigning a fuel filter system instead of using an existing one form another car wasn't worth the "squeeze" of cost and development for the company. Kinda feel…

No, you were saying that accessibility is subservient to efficiency.

And you were explicitly told several times that your hypothetical efficiency just does not exist. So constantly saying, "Yeah, but what if" looks like you're being obstinate for its own sake.

If the majority of people "didn't get your point", consider that maybe you aren't great at getting your point across.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#84

Post by demorro »

nonameiguess wrote: post #53
alexpotato wrote: post #7

I've worked at some of the "top tier" finance firms over the years. It is absolutely astounding how much of them run on code that is: - very reliable aka it almost never breaks/fails - written in ways that makes you wonder what series of events led to such awful code For example: - A deployment system that used python to read and respond to raw HTTP requests. If you triggered a deployment, you had to leave the webpag…

This is getting to be possibly the most irritating thing I've seen on Hacker News since registering here. Every thread about a limitation of LLMs being immediately rebuked with "humans do that too." It's a continuous object lesson in missing the point. A similar thing happened a few hours ago when an article was posted about a researcher who posted a fake paper about a fake disease to a pre-print server that LLMs pic…

Bravo.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#85

Post by GettingOld »

maury91 wrote: post #76
GettingOld wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a 2004 Citroen, which needed the front sidelight bulb replacing, after investigating for 20 minutes, decided to ask the garage how much it would cost next time it was in.

I left my Citroen to my mom, and my stepfather has calculated that a light bulb costs 3€, having the light bulb mounted by the mechanic costs 5€ ( including the bulb ), so to save up 2€ he decided ( with good cause ) that he will never replace the bulb himself cause it's extremely infuriating. I did manage to replace those bulbs myself, and it's ridiculous, it has some sort of spring to hold it in place that is extre…

In this case, I couldn't see how to get at the bulb without either losing lots of skin or dismantling half the front end of the car - so I was happy to pay the half hour rate they charged. I believe they went in from below the car with something to reach it and mirrors.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#86

Post by its_ethan »

bena wrote: post #83
its_ethan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are other considerations besides one measure of efficiency Bruh that's literally what I was saying? Instead of how efficiently can you replace a filter in an engine, another benefit might exist instead. Said another way, maybe the "juice" gained from redesigning a fuel filter system instead of using an existing one form another car wasn't worth the "squeeze" of cost and development for the company. Kinda feel…

No, you were saying that accessibility is subservient to efficiency. And you were explicitly told several times that your hypothetical efficiency just does not exist. So constantly saying, "Yeah, but what if " looks like you're being obstinate for its own sake. If the majority of people "didn't get your point", consider that maybe you aren't great at getting your point across.

> No, you were saying that accessibility is subservient to efficiency

Where do you believe I said that?

I don't recall saying anywhere that efficiency should be a priority over accessibility. I said "what if" to create a hypothetical to demonstrate that it could be. You know, trying to introduce nuance to a conversation. You can read that as obstinance for its own sake if you want.

My hypothetical not existing doesn't mean that some similar scenario isn't true. That's kind of the point of a hypothetical, it's an imaginary example to demonstrate a point. My suggestion that fuel efficiency could be effected may not be correct, but the efficiency of using a pre-existing design to save on new parts/labor very likely is true.

Again, people choosing to latch onto a hypothetical and tear that down instead of treating it like a tool for illustrating a point like it's intended to be is really odd and related to:

> If the majority of people "didn't get your point", consider that maybe you aren't great at getting your point across.

As I've said in other replies, I've already noted this- a specific mention of a hypothetical 2mpg that seems to really have distracted people lol

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#87

Post by RaftPeople »

kerblang wrote: post #37
jollyllama wrote: post #8

And cars are driven more than worked on, but putting the oil filter inaccessibly in the middle of the engine block is still an unforgiveable sin.

Try replacing the battery. Seems accessible enough at first, but ingenious engineering has made batteries the modern rubik's cube of auto maintenance.

My wife had a Chrysler Sebring.

The battery is in a compartment in the left front wheel well. You have to remove that wheel to access the battery.

I was instantly impressed by the pure creativity and artistic expression the team employed for that design.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#88

Post by paulddraper »

RaftPeople wrote: post #87
kerblang wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try replacing the battery. Seems accessible enough at first, but ingenious engineering has made batteries the modern rubik's cube of auto maintenance.

My wife had a Chrysler Sebring. The battery is in a compartment in the left front wheel well. You have to remove that wheel to access the battery. I was instantly impressed by the pure creativity and artistic expression the team employed for that design.

Dang

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#89

Post by paulddraper »

kerblang wrote: post #37
jollyllama wrote: post #8

And cars are driven more than worked on, but putting the oil filter inaccessibly in the middle of the engine block is still an unforgiveable sin.

Try replacing the battery. Seems accessible enough at first, but ingenious engineering has made batteries the modern rubik's cube of auto maintenance.

I’ve replaced many batteries over the past two decades with no problems.

All of them have been in Ford (or Saturn).

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#90

Post by manquer »

its_ethan wrote: post #51
manquer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only TCO matters, that is the efficiency you actually optimize for, ie dollar per mile[1]not miles per gallon. If the car is going to need to be in shop for days needing you to have a replacement rental because the model is difficult to service and the cost of service itself is not cheap , that can easily outweigh any marginal mpg gain . Similarly because it is expensive and time consuming you may likely skip service…

I'm just gonna copy and paste a response to another similar comment: The point that I am making (obviously, I think) is that tradeoffs exist, even if you don't think the right decision was made, your full view into the trade space is likely incomplete, or prioritizes something different than the engineers. Putting some random number of hypothetical mpg improvement was clearly a mistake, but I assumed people here woul…

I did read that before commenting, to be clear - the specific nature of your proposed optimization is not important and I took your premise to be true ie it will improve fuel efficiency and therefore save some money.

—

In general, the point was it is not operational efficiency in ideal conditions alone and serviceability is an important component because it can add to the overall cost of ownership significantly and individual car owners (in comparison to fleet) are typically poorer in factoring this in their buy decisions.

——

It comes down to numbers , if the proposed change, results in 10% improvement probably not worth it, 10x then definitely so .

I.e will the car become 22 MPGe or 200MPGe . Larger the gain more trade-offs like serviceability or life expectancy all can be sacrificed.

hybrids costs more upfront (both sets of expensive components - transmission/motor +engine/battery) but still work if driven enough miles, as the gain in efficiency makes up for the upfront.

Exact number of that miles is localized to you and me - depends things like tax difference including tolls, gas prices, MPGe diff, electricity prices, interest and purchasing power of currency other consumables costs like tires and so on.

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