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Alone Together, Again

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Re: Alone Together, Again

#61

Post by kamaal »

irahul wrote: post #56
kamaal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? I used to hear that, alimony is one reason why many women would get married to somebody rich and then divorce them. I can understand that divorces happen due to incompatibility reasons. But 50% is too high a number for that reason alone. Also I've heard marriage rates itself in the west are quite low. Never understood the log…

> Just curious to know, as somebody from India. What are leading causes for divorce in the US? Divorce is a taboo in India. The blog post says it's taboo to talk about in US as well, but it's totally different from not even considering divorce as an option. People endure bad relationships as divorce isn't something on the table for most. Despite all the development, women still aren't empowered enough. Women who are…

I think in India the problem is that laws are either not used at all, or just abused. Take for example IPC 498a and Domestic violence act. The true victims don't come forward at all, because they fear once the case reaches the police station all chances of reconciliation are ruled out. There fore they try to resolve the situation with as much discussions amidst elders. At the same time, 498a is draconian law in the hands of gold diggers. In fact the supreme court has itself noted to the epic high levels dowry law misuse going on.

Actually dowry law is misused quite a lot in our country and is not a small percentage by any means. And is also contributing to loss in faith in the institute of marriage to a large extent.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#62

Post by paganel »

oz wrote: post #36
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

I don't know. We all have outcomes we prefer. Shouldn't we take rational actions to create those outcomes? Sure, "life is what happens while you're busy making plans," but some people do accomplish what they set out to do. I want to join their ranks. On a day-to-day basis, what's the difference between "influencing and guiding it" vs. "pushing it"? No snark, just trying to understand your POV a bit better.

> On a day-to-day basis, what's the difference between "influencing and guiding it" vs. "pushing it"?

I'm not the parent of this thread, but I'll try to give my side of the story. The thing is that you cannot control absolutely everything. When you think you have it all, there's suddenly divorce/nasty break-up (as it also happened to me), disease, loss of loved ones, a once in a century economic crisis while you're stuck somewhere in the middle of no-where etc.

I'm not arguing for fatalism :), on the contrary, but I think that if one has this on the back of his/her mind (s)he'll be a stronger person.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#63

Post by toyg »

jdietrich wrote: post #37
colmvp wrote: post #3

“Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. It’s really that simple. That’s never happened – THAT would be sad. If two people were married and they were really happy and they just had a great thing, and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times. Literally zero.” Louis CK

Bullshit. I personally know of at least two marriages that ended in divorce for reasons entirely unrelated to the quality of the relationship - one or both parties had a mid-life crisis, tried to reinvent themselves to assuage their existential angst, divorced, utterly alienated their partner in the process and ended up bitterly regretting it. Deciding to divorce doesn't mean that your marriage is bad, it just means…

> we'd expect post baby-boom generations with high divorce rates to be much happier and more satisfied with their relationships than their parents and grandparents; Instead, the opposite is true.

Sorry, but this is just a delusion. The "rate of happiness" in relationships was simply not measured until the sexual revolution of the '60s/'70s: because of asymmetry in roles, married women were just not allowed to have an opinion on the matter.

Also, there was very little acceptance for the possibility of unhappiness: if you were correctly following all social and religious mores, "of course" you were happy. Being unhappy was a weakness which could not be displayed nor tolerated.

Things change for a reason. Idyllic Arcadian scenarios are always, invariably, delusions concocted by incomplete information.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#64

Post by bruceboughton »

colmvp wrote: post #3

“Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. It’s really that simple. That’s never happened – THAT would be sad. If two people were married and they were really happy and they just had a great thing, and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times. Literally zero.” Louis CK

As a non-American who has not seen Louis CK's show, I cannot see why he is so often quoted around here. If this is an example of his jokes, then they do not reveal any great philosophical thinking.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#65

Post by dagw »

bruceboughton wrote: post #64
colmvp wrote: post #3

“Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. It’s really that simple. That’s never happened – THAT would be sad. If two people were married and they were really happy and they just had a great thing, and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times. Literally zero.” Louis CK

As a non-American who has not seen Louis CK's show, I cannot see why he is so often quoted around here. If this is an example of his jokes, then they do not reveal any great philosophical thinking.

A lot of humor is very regional and cultural. While he does have a few bits i really enjoy, on the whole I don't really get why Louis CK is considered so great. But I simply put it down to not living in the US. I'm sure there are French or Polish or Japanese comedians whom are incredibly popular at home, but would completely fail to find an audience in the US for much the same reason.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#66

Post by lmm »

noonespecial wrote: post #33
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

To this I might add my own minim of insight: Don't try to like the things you think you ought to like, just let yourself like the things you do like. It seems simple enough, but I found it quite difficult to actually do. If you succeed though, it not only makes you happier, it also seems to inoculate you against pretentiousness.

I don't know. It took me a lot of time to gain any kind of appreciation for classic literature; I would often at least publicly claim that it was all a nexus of empty pretension. But I kept at it, motivated mostly by guilt, and I've developed an appreciation that means I can enjoy things that more people can talk about (compared to the sci-fi I've always read), and that makes me feel better about myself. Whether I'm actually better off is of course an open question.

Editing your own reward matrix should certainly be approached with extreme caution, but I see no reason to rule it out altogether.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#67

Post by bobz »

younata wrote: post #48
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

I disagree. For most people, it's fine and all to just go with the flow. Not me. I have an affliction that, statistically, I commit suicide if I try to go with the flow. I got damn close, too. It would've been really easy to go through with it. I didn't go through with it, and I got help. I'm now actively making my life better each day. I am pursuing the direction I want to go in life, and I am happier than I've ever…

I agree with you, but I also agree with the original sentiment.

I think the difference is, he is talking about, in the past, forcing the external circumstances of his life to conform to some ideal, where as now, he accepts that this isn't possible.

You, on the other hand, are talking about fighting your own internal battle to make yourself the best you can be. Your battle does sound exceptionally difficult, but we all fight that one.

I think maybe the point that I take away from all of this is, you can't always change the world. But (with a lot of hard work) you can change how you react to it. And that's the more important battle than any external circumstance anyway.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#69

Post by mduerksen »

colmvp wrote: post #3

“Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. It’s really that simple. That’s never happened – THAT would be sad. If two people were married and they were really happy and they just had a great thing, and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times. Literally zero.” Louis CK

This, if meant to be serious, reveals a very (wrong) fatalistic concept of marriage.

The state of a marriage is not set in stone. It is absolutely possible (and happens all the time) that a great marriage falls apart because one or both partners gradually stop giving attention to each other. The opposite may also be the case. A marriage that started off badly or took a big hit still can be amended.

It just doesn't happen automatically.

Marriage is mainly what both partners[1] make of it, und requires constant work and care. Of all the divorces I have seen in my environment, there was always at least one partner who wasn't willing to give his share of commitment.

Quote I heard somewhere:

After 65 years of marriage, an old couple was asked how they managed to stay together for so long. The woman thought for a few seconds, and then replied: "You know, we were born in a time where people used to repair things instead of throwing them away."

[1] This admittedly does mean that the fate of the marriage doesn't lie completely in the hands of one individual. You can't single-handedly make your marriage a good one. So maybe thats even the singlemost important trait to look for in a potential partner: Check for the ability to cooperate.

Re: Alone Together, Again

#70

Post by gfunk911 »

fferen wrote: post #21
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

I spent so much time trying to organize the life that I thought I wanted. It wasn’t the same as living. Every single time I've tried to push my life in a direction, tried to bend it to my will, it has blown up in my face. So, while I have things I'd like to do and places I'd like to go, I've learned to just let things unfold as they may. I try to influence and guide it, but I don't push it anymore. I think it comes d…

This is basically how I live my life. Throughout high school and freshman year college (I'm 19) I was always so concerned about things that were utterly unimportant in hindsight, like not offending people, making friends, not being a shut-in (I've always been an introvert). I've found that simply not caring about stuff has made the biggest improvement in my life satisfaction. For example, I tried to make friends in t…

I don't think that "not caring about stuff" and "relying on serendipity" necessarily go together.

Not caring about stuff that doesn't matter and being good at things go hand in hand.

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