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Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

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Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#111

Post by raverbashing »

ciupicri wrote: post #110
ryandrake wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to convey to today's generation, who think Ivy Bridge to Haswell was a big jump or whatever, how awesome the 286 -> 386 -> 486 changes were to personal computing. It felt almost like what going from a NES to a Super Nintendo to a N64 felt like. The improvements were astounding.

It wasn't a big jump, but it was a jump. Ivy Bridge lacks the instruction set required to run RHEL 10 [1]. The minimum supported microarchitecture level is x86-64-v3 and Ivy Bridge lacks AVX2 instructions. [1]: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...

I'm surprised RHEL is requiring AVX2 models, they usually had some slack in processor requirements (though I'm sure not as big as Debian)

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#112

Post by II2II »

theodorethomas wrote: post #91
CyberDildonics wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was really the 386 that was the beginning of modern computing, since it had a mmu.

Except the 486 had hardware floating point, essential for technical work.

An MMU is pretty much necessary for robust multitasking. Without it, you are at the whim of how well software behaves. Without it, it is more difficult for developers to create well behaved software. That also assumes good intentions from programmers, since an MMU is necessary for memory protection (thus security).

While emulating an FPU results in a huge performance penalty, it is only required in certain domains. In the world of IBM PCs, it was also possible to upgrade your system with an FPU after the fact. I don't recall seeing this option for IBM compatibles. While I have seen socketed MMUs on other systems, I don't know whether they were intended as upgrade options.

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#113

Post by [deleted] »

II2II wrote: post #112
theodorethomas wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the 486 had hardware floating point, essential for technical work.

An MMU is pretty much necessary for robust multitasking. Without it, you are at the whim of how well software behaves. Without it, it is more difficult for developers to create well behaved software. That also assumes good intentions from programmers, since an MMU is necessary for memory protection (thus security). While emulating an FPU results in a huge performance penalty, it is only required in certain domains. I…

[deleted]

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#114

Post by Eric_WVGG »

wiremine wrote: post #81

My first computer was a 486sx 25Mhz [1] The rig (tower, monitor, etc.) cost around $3,000. We got the SX instead of the DX because it was $500 cheaper. And I wanted a 16bit sound card. (Note that this is in 1992 dollars. Today it would cost over $7,000) My parents didn't have a lot of money, but my great-grand father passed and they used some of the inheritance to buy the computer. I was instantly hooked. In hindsigh…

similar, but I got the 486 DX2-66.

I’ve been thinking a lot about these inflation-adjusted prices due to the big Apple Computer anniversary — an Apple // cost $5000 in 2026 dollars, meanwhile a $600 Macbook Neo cost $150 in 1980 cash!

What helped me reconcile this was an observation that we’ve inverted the prices of necessities and luxury goods. Rent and mortgage in particular were a much smaller slice of income back then, but luxury goods were very expensive, so one would save up for a year or two to buy a new TV or a computer for the kids.

Now the necessities take a much larger slice of our income, but TVs and computers are incredibly cheap. It takes very little money to get a nice computer, and not-buying it barely makes a dent in the bills. This isn’t a good thing.

I do disagree a little with your observation regarding the industry “squeezing every ounce of power out of hardware”. Beyond local LLM stuff, there’s basically nothing a modern computer can comfortably do that any laptop since the mainstreaming of SSDs can’t.

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#115

Post by fulafel »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #78
theodorethomas wrote: post #43

The 486 and https://www.delorie.com/djgpp/history.html changed everything. Suddenly, it was possible to imagine running advanced software on a PC, and not have to spend 25,000 USD on a workstation.

It was really the 386 that was the beginning of modern computing, since it had a mmu.

Several operating systems on 286 (eg Xenix, Coherent, OS/2) used its MMU for multitasking and memory protection. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80286#Protected_mode

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#116

Post by ciupicri »

raverbashing wrote: post #111
ciupicri wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a big jump, but it was a jump. Ivy Bridge lacks the instruction set required to run RHEL 10 [1]. The minimum supported microarchitecture level is x86-64-v3 and Ivy Bridge lacks AVX2 instructions. [1]: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...

I'm surprised RHEL is requiring AVX2 models, they usually had some slack in processor requirements (though I'm sure not as big as Debian)

They analysed the compatibility impact, see https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2024/01/02/exploring-...

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#117

Post by alex_be »

486 was my dream. Unfortunately, my parents didn't have money for it. I bought my first PC in 1999 - a Pentium 2. I invested a lot of money in the monitor; computers become obsolete very quickly, while a monitor can serve for many years. Surprisingly, flat monitors appeared soon after...

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#118

Post by ciupicri »

theodorethomas wrote: post #91
CyberDildonics wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was really the 386 that was the beginning of modern computing, since it had a mmu.

Except the 486 had hardware floating point, essential for technical work.

By the way, "the i486SX was a microprocessor originally released by Intel in 1991. It was a modified Intel i486DX microprocessor with its floating-point unit (FPU) disabled." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I486SX)

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#119

Post by CyberDildonics »

fulafel wrote: post #115
CyberDildonics wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was really the 386 that was the beginning of modern computing, since it had a mmu.

Several operating systems on 286 (eg Xenix, Coherent, OS/2) used its MMU for multitasking and memory protection. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80286#Protected_mode

Protected mode on the 286 allowed 24-bit addressing, enabling access to 16 MB of memory, but lacked virtual memory and required a reboot to return to real mode. The 386 introduced virtual memory through paging, 32-bit addressing for 4 GB of memory, and virtual 8086 mode for running multiple 8086 programs simultaneously without compromising security.

https://flint.cs.yale.edu/feng/cos/resources/BIOS/procModes....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_mode

Re: Intel 486 CPU announced April 10, 1989

#120

Post by insane_dreamer »

> But when Word 97 arrived with real-time spelling and grammar checking and Clippy, the 486 couldn’t keep up. You really needed a Pentium or equivalent to do all three at once without noticeable lag as you typed.

In other words, faster hardware was needed because the quality and performance of the software dropped. I was doing spell-checking with WordStar on an CP/M Apple II with zero lag -- and WordStar fit on one side of a 5' floppy.

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