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FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

9to5mac.com

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Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#121

Post by pigggg »

krunck wrote: post #119
ryandrake wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced i…

The Proton Drive app keeps asking me to turn on backups of photos and video. There is no option to say "don't ask again." I guess they /want/ more storage to be used? Or is there a support issue they are trying to deal with?

Yes Google constantly asks me to backup my pictures to their platform No, I don't want this. But regularly when I go to my photos it'll pop up with a box asking and the default option is yes please back up. Sad.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#122

Post by ryandrake »

krunck wrote: post #119
ryandrake wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced i…

The Proton Drive app keeps asking me to turn on backups of photos and video. There is no option to say "don't ask again." I guess they /want/ more storage to be used? Or is there a support issue they are trying to deal with?

"Consent" has become this mystical foreign concept to software developers. If the world of computing was a night club, "Silicon Valley" would be that creepy guy who goes up to everyone asking "Do you want to dance? [YES | Ask Me Later]".

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#123

Post by loeg »

nine_k wrote: post #109
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #95

"However, it appears the defendant did not have that setting enabled, which, in turn, seemingly allowed the system to store the content in the database." "[A]llowing the system to store the content in the database" where a third party, such as Apple or a government, can access it is the default Only a small minority of users know about settings and how to change them. The vast majority of users do not change default…

If you care about security at all, you disable any previews on the lock screen. The lock screen is by definition visible to anyone without any authorization. Showing anything on it immediately destroys any secrecy. It must be obvious to anyone capable of elementary logic inference. If you don't know how to disable it, you use your favorite search engine / LLM / knowledgeable relative to find out, and disable it. But…

> If you care about security at all, you disable any previews on the lock screen. The lock screen is by definition visible to anyone without any authorization. Showing anything on it immediately destroys any secrecy. It must be obvious to anyone capable of elementary logic inference.

With at least one combination of settings, it shows the message content only when the lockscreen has been unlocked, but not yet swiped away.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#124

Post by greysonp »

ryandrake wrote: post #112
pigggg wrote: post #106

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced i…

We build Signal for everyone, and that includes a lot of people who are not as technologically literate as the average tech worker. For a lot of people, they don't even know they dismissed the notification permission prompt, they were just closing boxes. For them, the reminder is helpful and prevents them from experiencing missing notifications. Striking a balance between helping these people and annoying more technologically-literate users is very difficult, with compromises everywhere. We're just trying to make sure Signal works for people, nothing more.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#125

Post by benhurmarcel »

pigggg wrote: post #106

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

Reminds me what Whatsapp if you set up a 2FA PIN, which forces you to type it about every week to check if you forgot it. So annoying.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#126

Post by JumpCrisscross »

loeg wrote: post #120
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name only strikes me as a fairer compromise between security and usability.

I thought name-only was the default.

> I thought name-only was the default

At least for me, it was name and content.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#128

Post by dataflow »

greysonp wrote: post #107
pigggg wrote: post #106

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

Signal developer here. It's just because notification reliability is always a top support complaint, and a lot of people turn off notifications and don't realize they've done so. Admittedly, once a month is likely too aggressive.

How about instead of prompting to enable notifications, you leave a small banner or other unintrusive/non-annoying UI noting that they're off, which users can tap in order to learn more about how to reenable them?

For an app that prides itself on privacy, it's kind of crazy that you're making it so easy to accidentally blow it.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#130

Post by bronco21016 »

blitzar wrote: post #37

> testimony in a recent trial Court cases are the real way to audit security. Larping about security and complaining about companies responding to court orders only gets you so far. Its way more useful to look at what actually happens in reality.

Yes and no. Court cases certainly will disclose what capabilities various parties have come up with when it comes to security. However, there are documented cases where the government chooses to abandon prosecution for the sole purpose of preventing disclosure of some of their cyber capabilities.
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