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IPv6 is the only way forward

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Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#321

Post by general1465 »

throw0101d wrote: post #309
general1465 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So having all devices on public addresses was stupid to begin with on IPv4 and it was arrogantly stupid on IPv6.

> So having all devices on public addresses was stupid to begin with on IPv4 and it was arrogantly stupid on IPv6. "Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man." — The Dude Publicly addressable ≠ publicly reachable. When I was with my last ISP which had IPv6, my printer had a public address, but the only people who could reach it were those on my home network.

With this logic, my printer can be reachable on google.com, but only from my private network, does not turn my printer into Google.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#322

Post by Dagger2 »

tsoukase wrote: post #311
BenjiWiebe wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you plan to let IPv4 (32 bit address space) actually address and communicate with an IPv8 (64 bit address space) host? You don't have enough bits to identify the v8 host.

Something like 1:2:3:4:a:b:c:d where the most significant 32bits are a valid IPv4. The kernel figures out and keep all others the same (NAT etc). We extend the address space, not invent a new stack. The IPv6 critics shout out that this would be a viable solution.

Okay, so you've figured out how to make v4 addressable from v8. Good job. That lets v8 hosts address a v4 host via a v8 address.

How are you going to make v8 addressable from v4? Because you need to do this too for communication to work.

Also, you've made v4 addressable from v8, and you're about to explain how you make v8 addressable from v4... but that's just addressing, i.e. identifying the right host. How are you going to actually send packets from v8 to v4, and also from v4 to v8?

> The IPv6 critics shout out that this would be a viable solution.

But they never bother to understand enough of the problem to contribute anything useful. Either they can't come up with something that works, or they come up with something that they didn't realize v6 already did.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#323

Post by Dagger2 »

cwillu wrote: post #315
boredatoms wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling people to use ULA subnet fddd:: with dhcpv6 is my way. fddd::7 is easier to type than 10.0.0.7

one of those addresses requires two hands and hitting the shift key, the other is easily done one-handed.

You're looking for one of these: https://ipv6buddy.com/

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#325

Post by Dagger2 »

general1465 wrote: post #320
orangeboats wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we are giving IP addresses an hierarchy is stupid. If you don't want outsiders to connect to your device use a firewall.

Or use NAT, which is actually better solution, because misconfigured NAT won't expose your whole network, while misconfigured firewall will.

Well, actually it will. In fact, even correctly configured NAT won't stop connections into your network.

On top of that, it lulls you into a false sense of security, so you confidently think it's protecting you even when it isn't. At least not having NAT makes the actual state of your network clearer.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#326

Post by [deleted] »

Dagger2 wrote: post #287
commandersaki wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference, you don't do dual stack, you can incrementally roll it out and get tangible relief, unlike IPv6. The point is less about the technology proposed, but the point that there could be an interoperable version of a next generation IP and IPv4. IPv6 did the braindead thing and completely threw out the idea of transition and interoperability for a clean slate. We're paying for it many decades later. Also…

Why are you still trying to claim this? v6 has transition methods and ways to interoperate coming out of its wazoo. It does pretty much everything you can do to work with v4. Nobody threw out the idea of transitioning. > but the point that there could be an interoperable version of a next generation IP and IPv4 Yes, it's IPv6. The thing you linked basically took one of the interoperability methods of v6 and described…

[deleted]

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#327

Post by Dagger2 »

commandersaki wrote: post #290
Dagger2 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you still trying to claim this? v6 has transition methods and ways to interoperate coming out of its wazoo. It does pretty much everything you can do to work with v4. Nobody threw out the idea of transitioning. > but the point that there could be an interoperable version of a next generation IP and IPv4 Yes, it's IPv6. The thing you linked basically took one of the interoperability methods of v6 and described…

Is this some kind of attempt at gaslighting? If IPv6 gave tangible relief, then IPv4 today would not be an important mainstay of the Internet. I recommend you read the article I posted, and see how different things could have been, and how completely botched IPv6 rollout has become, that it is just not taken seriously except by some die hard cultists and mobile/telco (which can be done because they pretty much get fu…

Nope, not at all. Everything I said is true. v6 supports deploying in the way described in that article, and you can do it today if you want.

If you don't want to deploy v6 like that, consider why -- because the people who live in the world described by that article will also have the same reasons as you to not deploy it that way.

> If IPv6 gave tangible relief, then IPv4 today would not be an important mainstay of the Internet

No, that argument doesn't hold. v6 can give tangible relief even while v4 is an important mainstay of the Internet. You only have to listen to the people doing CGNAT, or the people turning on v6-mostly and seeing their v4 address use drop by 75% to hear examples of that.

Deployments of v6 reduce the pressure on v4, because they allow us to deploy new networks without needing v4 and because migrating existing networks frees up v4 that can be repurposed. This is also a benefit that's making v4 more viable that it would be without v6.

Plus you're making assumptions about the time needed to replace the Internet's L3 protocol. It's nice to fantasize about finishing it in 10 years, but that doesn't mean that finishing it in 10 years is realistically possible. Deployment of v6 is ongoing and v4's importance is dropping over time; you can't know what the ultimate impact of v6 will be until we're finished deploying it.

There was always going to be a long tail of v4-only hosts, no matter what we did. That's why v6 has a large number of compatibility methods for dealing with them (yes, including the method described in the linked article). It wouldn't be possible to deploy it at all if it didn't.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#328

Post by Dagger2 »

wpm wrote: post #202
opan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ten oh oh 7" (how I'd say it or remember it) still seems simpler than "eff dee dee dee colon colon 7". While with ipv4 the dots can be assumed for pauses, v6 doesn't put colons as often, also I could easily see myself forgetting the amount of "d"s. I don't wanna seem too anti-v6, though, I am in favor of everyone adopting the more modern thing. edit: Well, you said easier to type. I guess I probably agree with that.

There is also the fact that an IPv6 IP has a maximum and minimum number of characters and separators, but not a set one, so the length of any given address is variable. Instead of being able to run a groove in my head mentally, and read with any sort of rhythm, I have to read them like binary bytes. Every address feels like a foreign phone number where your normal rhythm doesn't fit, but it never gets better. Perhaps…

Dots weren't an option, because then the syntax would overlap with DNS hostnames. "2001.db8.c.d.e.f.g.ca" is a valid host under the .ca TLD.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#329

Post by camgunz »

kjs3 wrote: post #316
camgunz wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it doesn't support IPv6 it doesn't work.

My experience, indeed reality, says different for all values of "work" that matter to me.

My point is it's your vote against billions of others. My guess is "but what about kjs3's ISP" isn't a bullet point on the rollout list.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#330

Post by matttttttttttt »

bombcar wrote: post #124
flumpcakes wrote: post #69

One of the biggest, I would assume in the current year, blockers to an IPv6 only world would be the fact that the major "cloud" vendors do not support it.

The companies that rent you IPv4 addresses don’t support v6 well or at all? Do tell. I wonder why.

AWS supports IPv6 and it's free, whereas IPv4 is not.
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