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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#361

Post by Blackthorn »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #343
culi wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite of NIMBY. It's smart thoughtful policy and it is NOT a simple ban. Nobody bothers to read passed the title but the main piece of this legislation is the creation of the Maine Data Center Coordination Council. Alongside it is a temporary (until Nov 2027) moratorium on data centers over 20 megawatts. This seems to be in place so they could establish a proper legal and environmental framework for build…

Is a data center worse than an iron smelter or aluminum refiner? The negative backlash is way out of proportion to the actual harm of a light industrial activity with minimal pollution. Put in requirements for responsible caps on electricity usage and ban "temporary" generators so they don't get a backdoor public subsidy on their power consumption. The market will sort the rest out.

You've gotta read the room. People hate AI.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#362

Post by [deleted] »

kube-system wrote: post #93
yxhuvud wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abundant access to a source of cooling can help offset high grid prices. Well places centres can a ton of money that way.

Even in inefficient data centers, cooling is a minority of the power expense. Chasing a few percent of better cooling efficiency at the expense of a few percent more expensive power is a net negative. Cheap power is much more cost effective than the smaller efficiency bump you get from cold weather -- and you can also get both by locating in the midwest or northwest. Hyperscalers build here for these reasons.

[deleted]

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#363

Post by seizethegdgap »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #343
culi wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite of NIMBY. It's smart thoughtful policy and it is NOT a simple ban. Nobody bothers to read passed the title but the main piece of this legislation is the creation of the Maine Data Center Coordination Council. Alongside it is a temporary (until Nov 2027) moratorium on data centers over 20 megawatts. This seems to be in place so they could establish a proper legal and environmental framework for build…

Is a data center worse than an iron smelter or aluminum refiner? The negative backlash is way out of proportion to the actual harm of a light industrial activity with minimal pollution. Put in requirements for responsible caps on electricity usage and ban "temporary" generators so they don't get a backdoor public subsidy on their power consumption. The market will sort the rest out.

Per local job created? As bad as they are for the environment, local folks are working there, stimulating the local economy for a much longer period than specialists flying in, spinning up a DC, then leaving for the next one.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#365

Post by yfw »

pj_mukh wrote: post #307
piker wrote: post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states. Just NIMBY everything, NIMBY the power sources[1] [2], then complain about a lack of power so NIMBY any type of new industrial . Now do this for housing, new sources of water anything a person younger than 40 would need and you basically get a state full of retirees..and oh would you look at that! [3]. Now the question is, why wouldn't all states eventually do this w…

Its race to the bottom not nimby.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#366

Post by tt24 »

culi wrote: post #297
tt24 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange that suddenly they don’t seem to like this concept so much anymore :) “I support the right of $state to ban $thing” Wait, not like that!

States don't have "rights", people do. I don't support any state's power to take away any human's rights. And bootlickers who do shouldn't have the chance to act out their fascistic fantasies

> I don't support any state's power to take away any human's rights.

Absolutely agreed. Which is why I'm firmly against Maine's proposal here

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#367

Post by TitaRusell »

pj_mukh wrote: post #307
piker wrote: post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states. Just NIMBY everything, NIMBY the power sources[1] [2], then complain about a lack of power so NIMBY any type of new industrial . Now do this for housing, new sources of water anything a person younger than 40 would need and you basically get a state full of retirees..and oh would you look at that! [3]. Now the question is, why wouldn't all states eventually do this w…

Data centers bring in less jobs than tourism. They don't grow the tax base.

All you get is ugly industrial sprawl.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#368

Post by rolandog »

slabity wrote: post #332
pj_mukh wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We are for the jobs the comet provides" - Don't Look up. I'm not trying to be facile here but let's be honest the environmental concerns are silly. I don't want to hear about electricity shortages from a state hellbent on NIMBY-ing itself out of power[1],[2]. I understand people are threatened by this technology, the tech CEOs' loud pronouncements can cause that and that these arguments are basically threat response…

Don't Look Up is about ignoring expert consensus on a clear threat, not about rejecting benefits out of fear. For the analogy to land, you'd need overwhelming evidence that these data centers are net-positive for host communities, but that's exactly what's in dispute. You're right that there's tension between 'not enough power' and 'no new heavy loads' but it's not hypocritical to argue that megawatts of power should…

> Though it could be argued that water consumption of these centers might be the reason for it.

Indeed! And we also shouldn't forget the CO2 and NOx emissions from gas-powered turbines (on some)... Also IIRC 9+°C warming in the surrounding areas, loud droning noise, and I seem to recall that there might have also been local water well pollution.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#369

Post by TitaRusell »

ryandrake wrote: post #48
piker wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sorry that wasn't intended as a slight to Texas. Texas just does have a lot of barren landscape where datacenters wouldn't offend as much. I modified it to make that clear. Also, energy is playing a role here.

Is that really the primary concern about datacenters? Their aesthetics? I thought the major problem with them was that they muscle in on valuable resources like water and electricity, consuming what would otherwise be used by people, and driving the prices up.

Would you build one on Pennsylvania Avenue?
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