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Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

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Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#61

Post by JumpCrisscross »

levocardia wrote: post #60

>Kinship societies are actively hostile to economic growth, because economic growth undermines the basis of kinship: that is why kinship societies demand constant, visible sacrifices of wealth—funerals being the most spectacular—that make it extraordinarily difficult for any individual to accumulate capital, reinvest their assets, and pull ahead. The funeral is a window into a system of wealth destruction that serves…

> Consumer spending is not "wealth destruction" -- who makes the fantasy coffins? Who prints the banners? Local businesses!

This is the parable of the broken window [1].

> Ghana is sitting at a 5.6% GDP growth rate

Ghana is a success story in large part due to having made a clear-eyed recovery after its 2015 IMF bailout.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#62

Post by sillysaurusx »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #58
sillysaurusx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was self inflicted. Instead, it seems to be an artifact of modern society. I posted “How to Be Alone?” exploring this issue somewhat: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47296547 690 points, 500+ comments. I’m not trying to get pity, but it would be mistaken to say that I brought it on myself. My wife didn’t bring it on me either. We simply eroded over time. But when marital bonds erode, it turns out they…

Hello friend. I responded to your post and have thought about you since. Yet had you not referenced your post, I would not have made the connection. It's too bad there's not a way to more easily recognize people on this site, a way to build more community.

Thank you! That’s so kind of you.

I’m pleased to report that the advice I got directly helped me feel optimistic about life again. The community is here, and I continue to be amazed by it. I’m grateful for you and everybody else who helped dig me out.

Feel free to shoot me an email. I was buried in dozens of emails last time (apologies if I missed anyone) but things are much slower now. Happy to hear from you or anyone else who wants to chat.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#63

Post by squigz »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #53
kennyadam wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what both my parents and myself did. When my mum was diagnosed with Stage 4 melanoma, it was one less thing to worry about arranging and trying to find money for. She went from diagnosis to death in two months so things were a bit disorienting and just getting a RESPECT form (aka DNR) completed was such a struggle as everyone I spoke to had no record of my previous conversation with the last person I spoke to…

I'll just mention that when my mom was starting to deteriorate, my dad hired a healthcare advocate and set up legal authorities such that if he was incapacitated when mom needed medical decisions in hospice, or logistical details about funeral arrangements, the advocate could represent what mom and dad had discussed prior as their wishes. Then, a year or so after my mom passed it became clear dad was heading that way…

That sounds like a very rewarding job. Sure, you have to deal with the grief that so many death-adjacent fields have to, but at least you get the satisfaction of really helping people through those terrible times.

So sorry for your losses.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#64

Post by Retric »

wahern wrote: post #59
forthwall wrote: post #31

This article seems to establish that kinship leads to the failure of wage growth and ultimately wealth, people will hide their wages because people will ask for money. This seems like the issue rather is is that wealth accumulation in sub-saharan africa is limited to a small subset of population, I don't think this wealth tax by family members exists when you have a larger group of individuals making more money. You…

Ghana's GINI index is only a couple points higher than the US (43 vs 41), and the same as Mexico. I don't think wealth inequality explains this at all. But what rigid social institutions of any kind tend do is inhibit mobility. Moreover, kinship groups like this tend to lock-in relative wealth by lineage--the wealthiest family of a kin group from 3 generations ago will be much more likely (relative to other cultures)…

> even if relative wealth disparities remain constant.

Relative wealth disparity increases as absolute wealth increases because below a minimum level of income people starve. IE you can’t make 1/10th the median wage in a subsistence economy long term you just die. But a homeless person can survive for decades in the US on ~500$ a month.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#65

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Retric wrote: post #64
wahern wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghana's GINI index is only a couple points higher than the US (43 vs 41), and the same as Mexico. I don't think wealth inequality explains this at all. But what rigid social institutions of any kind tend do is inhibit mobility. Moreover, kinship groups like this tend to lock-in relative wealth by lineage--the wealthiest family of a kin group from 3 generations ago will be much more likely (relative to other cultures)…

> even if relative wealth disparities remain constant. Relative wealth disparity increases as absolute wealth increases because below a minimum level of income people starve. IE you can’t make 1/10th the median wage in a subsistence economy long term you just die. But a homeless person can survive for decades in the US on ~500$ a month.

Does this effect have a name? I wonder how you'd adust for it in a modified GINI metric.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#66

Post by JumpCrisscross »

klooney wrote: post #2

> Modernity is about not doing what your family says The flip side is that rich and modern people feel lonely and sad that they don't have strong social bonds.

> flip side is that rich and modern people feel lonely and sad

The happiest countries in the world are also rich [1].

I'm not saying you can't fuck up being rich. But it's a lot harder to be fulfilled if you're poor.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2025_re...

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#67

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bobanrocky wrote: post #39
mlsu wrote: post #18

In America we spend that money on weddings. Lots of young people wipe their savings on getting married, at one of the most critical times in life (just before starting a family). It often prevents them having kids or buying a home for years.

Ha, have you been to an indian wedding in India? Now that’s big big money. And the societal pressures to make it so are huge .. American weddings are so tame and sensible by comparison. Far better to spend those $$ on weddings rather than funerals though !

> have you been to an indian wedding in India? Now that’s big big money

Are Indian families spending multiples of annual incomes on weddings? They're lavishly done. But the cost of labour, land and e.g. fresh flowers is also ridiculously cheaper in India than in the West.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#68

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Tade0 wrote: post #43

There's an interesting film focused on this topic: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1499420/ The author traveled through Cameroon and documented, among other things, the realities of having a backlog of dead one must properly bury. Turns out not everyone can afford putting their deceased relatives in a freezer - especially for extended periods of time, so sometimes the dead are stored in a separate storage area next to the…

> so sometimes the dead are stored in a separate storage area next to the home until the living gather the necessary funds

Isn't this an own goal when it comes to disease?

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#69

Post by [deleted] »

desecratedbody wrote: post #32
technothrasher wrote: post #14

Basically my whole family have signed our bodies over to the local medical school. They make all the arrangements and pay for everything as soon as they're notified upon death. They'll normally give you the ashes upon cremation after a year or so, but personally I've given them permission to completely skeletonize me and keep the skeleton indefinitely. This helps society by helping student doctors learn, and it remov…

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49198405

[deleted]

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#70

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Bombthecat wrote: post #8

Wife is from Africa, buried her dad and mom. If she wouldn't have put down her foot, they would have sucked her dry ( our money) we set a budget and they got what they got... But I can easily see other people/ wifes not setting boundaries and spending a ton of money..

> If she wouldn't have put down her foot, they would have sucked her dry

Can you describe the escalation of asks?

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