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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#101
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

I'm guessing the population of Lewiston would welcome an employer of 30 jobs

Are you saying that those thirty job will go to people currently living in Lewiston?

If so, thirty jobs are on the plus side. What's on the minus side?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#102

I live in Maine. Commercial power is crazy expensive. I don't know why you would build an AI datacenter here in the first place. As an obsessive self-hoster, I've researched building one, and there is no universe in which it makes sense. New Hampshire and Massachusetts are so nearby latency-wise.

I know little about this region. Why would it be unreasonably more expensive to build on one side of the state line than another?

They are very dependent on natural gas and they also heavy environmental protections/pollution regulation that makes it hard to build stuff like pipelines and, hence, makes electricity more expensive compared to states with less environmental protections.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#103

I live in Maine. Commercial power is crazy expensive. I don't know why you would build an AI datacenter here in the first place. As an obsessive self-hoster, I've researched building one, and there is no universe in which it makes sense. New Hampshire and Massachusetts are so nearby latency-wise.

I know little about this region. Why would it be unreasonably more expensive to build on one side of the state line than another?

I don't know about this particular situation (NH and MA seem to have expensive power as well), but you can have significantly different costs on one side of the line or the other for regulatory reasons. State regulations can affect the cost of business significantly, and electricity is no exception.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#105
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

[flagged]

And abolishing ICE! Why should states be forced to host armies they don't agree with?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#107
post #33
post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

Bingo. Data centers are a net negative wherever they are. Giant, employ far fewer people than a grocery store after they’re built, crank up electricity costs, use tons of water, air pollution if it’s self-powered, noise pollution (it’s really worth watching Benn Jordan’s video on infrasound,) ugly… the only local entities that win are the landowner and the municipality that collects taxes on them. Though I’ve seen some astonishingly misinformed politicians offering big tax incentives for data centers not realizing that they employ so few people. From what I hear, even much of the construction is done by flown-in contractors with experience doing it elsewhere.

The people that own these data centers have only themselves to blame. They’ve been obnoxious, at scale, for so long that damn near everybody knows how much they suck, and they’re losing their ability to railroad locals into eating their turd sandwiches.

Edit: I know it’s gauche to talk about votes here, but this comment trended upward consistently for 45 minutes. In much less than 10 minutes, it collected more than half that amount in downvotes. I’d eat my hat if there wasn’t some kind of organized/automated brigading happening here.

Edit again: Now close to 70% gone. Not exactly surprising given the forum, but pretty depressing nonetheless.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#108
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major data centers being built for AI are much more energy-hungry than car manufacturing, and they're being built at a pace that the US energy grid simply cannot accommodate in the short term... or quite possibly even the long term, considering the US's extreme aversion to expanding nuclear power. Also, you can call it Luddism if you want, but a car factory is going to bring a lot more net benefit to the average…

And a data centre brings absolutely no economic benefit whatsoever to its local community, unlike something like an auto plant that creates entirely new supporting industries to support it and its employees.

Property taxes come to mind.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#109
post #80

One could absolutely design data centers that were energy positive and ecologically decent (with respects to pollution). For a known amount of data enter power, dedicate 125% of power in solar and battery. Need cooling? Use liquid geothermal loops. Or radiate energy back into space. We know frequencies that do not reflect in atmo. Acoustic pollution is another area. Acoustic tiles, building plans, and natural noise b…

For cooling you can also use a heat exchanger and dump it into a river or an ocean or so.

Closed loop heat exchange costs more electricity. It's not a free lunch that data center designers are overlooking.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#110
post #99
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is misleading. It's not a "ban", just a "moratorium" until November 2027 And your "easy solution" has had a lot of research debunking its efficacy and a lot of holes in it. https://www.smithschool.ox.ac.uk/news/carbon-offsets-have-fa...

Carbon offsets are a sham, but you could just require them to directly pay for the actual energy infrastructure required. If you need 1GW of electricity, develop 1GW of solar.

Surely you realize that building the infrastructure and driver of the 1GW provider would be, hopefully, carbon neutral?
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