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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#31

Post by mystraline »

One could absolutely design data centers that were energy positive and ecologically decent (with respects to pollution).

For a known amount of data enter power, dedicate 125% of power in solar and battery.

Need cooling? Use liquid geothermal loops. Or radiate energy back into space. We know frequencies that do not reflect in atmo.

Acoustic pollution is another area. Acoustic tiles, building plans, and natural noise barriers are also of utmost importance too.

We need more compute. Plain banning is not the way. Demanding highly ecological and conserving solutions is.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#32

Post by cloudfudge »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #23
lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

For people who don't support this kind of ban, I'd ask: What's the alternative? _Requiring_ that states house data centers?

In what universe is requiring them the only alternative to banning them? The actual alternative is obvious: not banning them.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#33

Post by slabity »

lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs.

The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees.

The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#34

Post by embedding-shape »

lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

> If, given all that, you'd support factory construction but not data center construction, I'd be curious as to why.

Personally I'd support either/both, but I could easily see someone's else perspective being that you support the usage and selling/purchasing of whatever the factories make, but you don't feel the same about what the data centers provide. So regardless of impacts, in one case the tradeoffs feel OK, and in the other it doesn't, all because your personal preferences and opinions.

To be honest, it's a bit surprising this is even a question? Did you really not understand that people have different preferences in what exists and is available in a society, and especially near them?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#35

Post by threetonesun »

lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

I imagine Maine would support bans on both, yes. Most of their economy is tourism and being known for their coasts and forests, I don't think anything that could possibly have environmental impacts to support industries/businesses that are primarily not housed in Maine would be seen as a good thing.

The more interesting question to me is do you support full bans on these things in states that could easily allow them with strict regulations, knowing that they will instead likely be built in places with no regulations?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#36

Post by cosmic_cheese »

This is a natural response to the excessive pushiness and underhandedness that's been used to build many of these new datacenters, often in direct conflict with the wishes of the locals. Maybe the firms paying to get them built should take a more diplomatic approach instead of trying to railroad projects through.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#38

Post by jeffbee »

dpe82 wrote: post #25
9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #4

I live in Maine. Commercial power is crazy expensive. I don't know why you would build an AI datacenter here in the first place. As an obsessive self-hoster, I've researched building one, and there is no universe in which it makes sense. New Hampshire and Massachusetts are so nearby latency-wise.

Power is not the most expensive part of data center lifetime cost; especially these days when you're filling them with several billion dollars of nvidia chips. It's still an important consideration of course, but not the only one.

I don't know if that's really true. Given realistic life cycles of equipment (~10 years, not 3 as commonly believed) the operating power is going to be 75-80% of the TCO, or more.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#39

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

gib444 wrote: post #5

Will a US state get the same kind of criticism a European country gets about push-back against big tech? Maine will go bankrupt? Maine will turn into a barren backwater? There will be no jobs?

If Maine passes this moratorium, and then starts accusing developers of malicious compliance for cancelling their projects instead of redesigning against the 20 megawatt limit, I'll definitely line up to make fun of them. My sense is that this isn't what's happening, and the Maine legislators understand and intend for this policy to discourage datacenter investment altogether.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#40

Post by strongpigeon »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #23
lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

For people who don't support this kind of ban, I'd ask: What's the alternative? _Requiring_ that states house data centers?

Taxing them to account for the externalities they bring.
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