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The Importance of Being Idle

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Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#81

Post by vinaigrette »

ernst_klim wrote: post #71
zozbot234 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we care to be "at the top"? The average person gets no benefit from this; on the contrary, they would do a lot better if underperforming countries in Europe's neighborhood raised their standards of living.

> The average person gets no benefit from this You are proving the point. The avg. person gets an enormous benefit from it, even in countries like USA, Japan or Korea with far less generous welfare. The gap in standards of living of somebody in the US and somebody in Georgia or Vietnam are ridiculous.

Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. Mean standard of living is a poor way to calculate inequality. If you have a link to a median one it would help to compare.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#82

Post by gzread »

ernst_klim wrote: post #68
nicbou wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s more that at a certain income, you kind of plateau. You can afford all the little pleasures you want, but you couldn’t meaningfully improve your life without doubling your income. It would not get you a nicer apartment, would not make a house more affordable, and would not give you more time to enjoy travelling. It seems to me like in Germany, the rock bottom is high but the glass ceiling is low. I am ve…

> I am very happy with this I'm not. If you are european and will inherit something it's fine, but if not you'll barely be able to afford a house and a tiny investment portfolio. And at the face of the immense collapse of a pension system it's pretty grim.

This is all about how the housing market is structured, not the amount worked. If people worked even more, house prices would rise further to cancel it.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#83

Post by sph »

maplethorpe wrote: post #61

I feel like right now is the worst time to be idle. Stopping to smell the roses or lie on the grass when you could be spinning up agents and burning tokens means you'll be left in the dust.

Said the Hare to the Tortoise.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#84

Post by ernst_klim »

gzread wrote: post #80
ernst_klim wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. And we all have a sh”tload of holidays and irregular days off additionally. In DE I would argue that this is due to punitive taxes and I wouldn't call it progress. Poor people work their asses 40+ hours and up to overwork since it's always paid here. White collars work less time and often switch to 4 days because at this tax progression working your…

Is this actually a problem? We all know the average white collar worker doesn't actually work for 40 hours despite being at the office. The average - everywhere - is more like the equivalent of 20 hours of solid focused work per week day. Does more white collar work beyond a threshold produce more value, anyway? Sometimes yes but often no.

> We all know the average white collar worker doesn't actually work for 40 hours despite being at the office.

Yes bc now this worker works same 3-4 hours but 4 days instead of 5.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#85

Post by latexr »

Animats wrote: post #36
syphia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." - Blaise Pascal Translations vary slightly.

Computers, TVs, video games, and smartphones have solved that problem. There are now more things to do alone in a room than ever before. It didn't help.

> Computers, TVs, video games, and smartphones have solved that problem.

No, they exacerbated the problem. The point of the quote is not the being alone, but the doing nothing. All your examples just made it harder to do so because there’s always something you can distract yourself with. The point is that you should be able to be alone with your thoughts and nothing else.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#86

Post by ernst_klim »

vinaigrette wrote: post #81
ernst_klim wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average person gets no benefit from this You are proving the point. The avg. person gets an enormous benefit from it, even in countries like USA, Japan or Korea with far less generous welfare. The gap in standards of living of somebody in the US and somebody in Georgia or Vietnam are ridiculous.

Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. Mean standard of living is a poor way to calculate inequality. If you have a link to a median one it would help to compare.

> Poverty levels

Poverty levels are measured relative to median. Poverty in US and poverty in Bangladesh, Russia or Vietnam are completely different things.

In the US poverty line is about $16k, while in Russia for example it is $2300. Even considering the PPP it's like 4 times the difference in living standards. I guess Vietnam or Bangladesh are far worse.

Upd: downvotes with no counterargument. Orange site is becomming more and more a reddit.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#87

Post by zozbot234 »

gzread wrote: post #82
ernst_klim wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am very happy with this I'm not. If you are european and will inherit something it's fine, but if not you'll barely be able to afford a house and a tiny investment portfolio. And at the face of the immense collapse of a pension system it's pretty grim.

This is all about how the housing market is structured, not the amount worked. If people worked even more, house prices would rise further to cancel it.

The housing market is heavily location dependent, if you want to avoid rising prices you should just move out.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#88

Post by kaliqt »

camillomiller wrote: post #21

I hope that people realize still that LLMs will never ever be able to produce a piece like this. This is extraordinarily written. It is etymologically out of the average. It’s complex. Concepts intertwine and build on each other. The linguistic choices are unusual but perfectly placed. >>“But even idlers, try as they might, cannot ignore the passage of time. In 1911, a dozen years before Capek published his essay, Pa…

LLMs always could. They are simply just not asked (prompted) to speak in such a fashion, so they don’t.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#89

Post by latexr »

maplethorpe wrote: post #61

I feel like right now is the worst time to be idle. Stopping to smell the roses or lie on the grass when you could be spinning up agents and burning tokens means you'll be left in the dust.

Oh you will, will you? And what, pray tell, happens in this dust you’re left in? What’s the reward for working so hard right now? More work? What a rotten deal.

It’s common for people on their death beds to wish they had spent more time relaxing. It’s not common for anyone to wish they had spent more time working.

The sentiment you’re expressing has been sold to us for a long time, way before “agents” were a thing. “You have to work harder, pull yourself by your bootstraps, build a company, spend all your free time on side projects, …”. It’s a grift designed to keep you busy, selfish, and brain dead, oblivious to your own condition and the state of the world. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#90

Post by DarkUranium »

rewgs wrote: post #19
strken wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never practiced Buddhism and it is still indescribably blissful to sit in a clearing in a forest, provided you aren't sitting on the wrong kind of anthill.

Is there a right kind of anthill to sit on?

I used to play on top of a giant (for a kid me, anyway) anthill in a nearby forest.

That's how I learned that forest ants, at least the local ones, are incredibly docile. I never got bothered by them.

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