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The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

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Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#241
I bought my current laptop last year. While wondering how annoying it would be to set up a dual-boot and have a not-so-bloated windows install, I've had enough:

I called Dell, telling them I'm not agreeing with their software license and that I want to return them all the software. 5 minutes.

Got 180€ back for this.

Wiped the entire HDD. Ah man! That felt good. No more rants on crapware.

Installed Ubuntu.

Now I have a computer that does what I want it to do, not what I'm supposed to want.

Sure I have to put up with other issues now but what a liberative experience.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People simply will not pay for linux desktop support and there really is no other model" RHEL need no competitors at all then?

RHEL is a server product, I guess I don't follow your comment. Do they even sell desktop support? If you are suggesting Ubuntu should focus on the server market - well they have put a lot into that too but they cannot get the market share required to sustain their business from that. RHEL is far too entrenched.

RedHat quit the desktop market years ago exactly because they found it to be unprofitable.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#243
post #205

I enjoyed this rant. The bottom line is that this 'experience' isn't about you, its about who you can be sold too. That is because "you" are too cheap to pay what "we" think should be paid for them. It is like a hotel which sells you room for $100 a night if you agree to let them leave a web cam on 24/7 and sell any useful 'snippets' it catches while you are there. The bulk of the market doesn't buy "computers" they…

> Time to start a 'developers' company that works very much on the same model that Sun Microsystems started on, hardware designed from the ground up to be developed on, open systems so that folks can easily work with it, and a team dedicated to making sure integration and support is there so that folks like you and I can say "Hey this audio doesn't work when you set the sampling rate to 40Khz" and they can fix it and…

>in fact their focus on software over hardware is arguably why they won

nope, it was their business acumen, and willingness to kill off competitors

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#244
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These won't work with OEM keys supplied by the manufacturer. You would need to acquire your own key (enterprise, retail, etc.).

That is incorrect, at least for most retail OEM keys anyway. I noticed that starting with Vista, the distinction between OEM vs Non-OEM key seems to have been reduced. This makes life easier when there is no recovery partition or the hard-drive is hosed. Whereas with XP, you did have to use an OEM version for the key to work. I have not had any issue validating windows using the above versions of Win 7, as well as a…

>Every so often I have to call in and do the automated telephone activation

reason number 1001 why I hate windows

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#245
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem was that at around the same time that VT became useless, Apple removed the OS X downloads section from their website (in preparation for the Mac App Store). So within a very short time span, most of the resources that small developers had for promoting their work disappeared. More recent abominations like Gatekeeper are just icing on the cake. >I'd think that it would improve discoverability in gener…

>> More recent abominations like Gatekeeper are just icing on the cake. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this line of reasoning. How can security measures like this harm most users, especially given it's something that can easily be turned off.

Surely you can see that "easily turned off" is relative to a user's experience, and that ease of disabling is not the only issue. If you ask most users to turn off a security feature so that they can run your software, they're going to think you're doing something shady.

And that's pretty shitty. Now a lot of people will say "it's only $99/year; what's the big deal?"

Well, first off, that's $99/year, forever, or your apps stop working. That's quite a commitment for a small developer.

Secondly, $99 is steep if you're developing freeware. You should not have to pay a hundred bucks a year for the privilege of giving your software away without people thinking that you're trying to steal credit card numbers or something.

Finally, $99 is steep for a lot of young people. I started developing freeware and shareware when I was in high school. If I had had to pay $99/year to make my app presentable, it probably would have been a deal stopper.

Now, you might say "Sure, but you're an established shareware developer and none of these things apply to you." But they still affect every shareware developer. Ever notice that nobody seems to be have been successful with shareware on Windows in many many years? Everything on that platform has been "free trials" and sketchy ad ware. The difference is ecosystem.

For many years, there was a thriving freeware and shareware ecosystem for the Mac, and so Mac users expected to be able to find freeware and shareware solutions to their problems. They expected to be able to find a handful of cheap or free programs that did what they wanted, and they'd be able to try out each one until they found one they liked. They expected this because it was true.

And free/shareware developers expected there to be an audience of Mac users looking for a free/shareware app that did what their app did. And they could be reasonably sure that if they fulfilled a real need, did it well, and kept the latest versions up on software aggregators, they'd be able to reach that audience.

But those three points above, along with the decimation of aggregators, and the introduction of the Mac App Store have broken that ecosystem. And let's be clear: Apple didn't merely sit by while the forest burned. They clear cut the damned thing and built their app store there. That thriving ecosystem had helped Apple sell computers, but it didn't profit them directly. So Apple set out to change users' expectations away from "find some cheap/free software out there written by a small developer" to "check the App Store", all so that they could squeeze 30% out of the process.

I do not think Gatekeeper is really about security. I think it is about turning the Mac App Store into the Only Way to release software. It's just a little squirt of agent orange to make sure that the forest doesn't grow back.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#246
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a company that does what you suggest. I will probably get down voted for saying it, but Apple. They put in the time to make a pretty darned good user experience for first impressions. There's no junk, no spyware, nothing to remove. Occasionally you might get a software bundle, like Office, or Quicken, but literally just drop it in the trash and you are done with it. Rarely would you have to find an u…

I see you never needed quicktime on windows? Their download page asks you for the email to "Keep me up to date with Apple news, software updates, and the latest information on products and services." Their privacy policy starts with: "You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information…

And there was that one time the iTunes updater installed Safari on my computer. I'm in the habit of reading through the options on installers carefully looking for those sorts of tricks, but not updaters.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#247
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am an Apple user, and the Apple experience has jumped off a cliff for developers. I was an Apple user and small OS X developer, and I agree completely. Three years ago, I made a living developing shareware. Then Apple decided they wanted total control over the app ecosystem and turned the "put out a good product and wait" business model into an impossibility. VersionTracker's sale to CNET and subsequent mediocriti…

Yes, this restrictive control over the App Store is the most unfortunate thing they've developed. I would not be surprised if they tried to lock it down entirely by first changing the default security to "App Store only", and then removing the other options. I guess great minds think alike, because I'll be jumping ship for web development on Linux in short order.

>I guess great minds think alike, because I'll be jumping ship for web development on Linux in short order.

That's great. It's really not as painful a transition as I feared it might be. It's actually pretty astonishing how far the various linux desktop environments have come as far as usability.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#248
post #3

Not computer users, just the windows users. I never understood the install wizards for windows software, in 99% of the time you just click "next" until it stops asking for more "next". And now they all sneak garbage adware with the check boxes enabled by default because most people just click "next" anyway. Also the whole download and install drivers/utilities etc after installation is very time consuming because the…

I think every OS has lots of crap burden. On linux you have complicated unnecesary things geeks will defend to death. On OS X I recently tried to install octave. How I did it:

Step 1: Create an Apple Store account. Credit cards aren't so common here because bank transfers are basicly free and you automaticly get a debit card from your bank that is universally accepted. If you try to create an account directly you will fail if you don't have a credit card. You need to "purchase" a free App to be able to create an account without credit card information.

Step 2: Download Xcode and skim the licence agreement for 10 minutes so you don't sell your organs to Apple

Step 3: Find the Console Development Tools installation somewhere hidden in the options of xcode

Step 4: Install macports

Step 5: Install octave with macports, this encompasses half an gentoo installation. Things already present on the system like the llvm from xcode get rebuild. This takes hours.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#249
post #67

First of all, this guy's biggest mistake was failing to format his drive and start with a clean Windows install. Installing windows requires far less effort than cleansing a vendor's install of crapware. Users should not have to do this. I must fully agree that MS needs to start restricting what Vendors like HP can install on the PC's they sell. Second, I'm very curious to see how the Windows App store plays out. The…

I've been a fan of the clean install and it is generally a lot better, but you'll often need to install third party drivers which will then try to install crapware at the same time.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#250

I enjoyed this rant. The bottom line is that this 'experience' isn't about you, its about who you can be sold too. That is because "you" are too cheap to pay what "we" think should be paid for them. It is like a hotel which sells you room for $100 a night if you agree to let them leave a web cam on 24/7 and sell any useful 'snippets' it catches while you are there. The bulk of the market doesn't buy "computers" they…

What you describe sounds like what Dell's "Project Sputnik" is aiming to do.

http://bartongeorge.net/2012/11/06/project-sputnik-profile-t...

Looks like they plan to launch something soon. Hope it turns out well.

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